Niall, dead box?

[Dave.H]

Niall, whats the score with the dead boxes for Campaign?, I know this has been talked to death, but no options have been considered?, do we really want to face the back like naughty schoolboys?(well some of you probably do!)

But really can`t an alternative work, why not consider netted deadboxes, this way teams can watch their mates play, it is a team game after all, we all love the reconition we get from pulling off a game breaking move, or turning it around.

Netted boxes give a zone that players can watch from and not get shot themselves, nor shoot anyone, guns could be left outside the box, and most importantly if a player leaves the box before game over, they get 50 penalty points,period!, believe me I would not step out that box till told, would you?.

Niall why not trial it?, if it doesn`t work after a few games then zip tie some banners to it, end of story. If it does then great, we all get some quality viewing of our favorite game back, I`m not going to beg but check it out bud.

Dave.H. Rushers.

 

[Dave.H]

Just to add................

Another bonus would if the dead box is purley that, a box with no back to it, it would prevent shooting before the break, gets rid of the indescrection of whether someone shot before they stepped over the line, just another reason to make it happen.

 

[NIALL]

Hi Dave,

At this moment in time I still favour the blind dead boxes. Whilst I appreciate how narked you can get sitting there not really knowing what is going in the game, from the wider perspective it helps cure a massive problem.

Currently the marshals have enough on their hands dealing with the game in progress, without having to deal with dead players as well. At Campaign Cup there are TV cameras, representatives from Sport England, etc etc. Do I want to risk the reputation of our sport at this critical moment, because of the crap behavior of a small minority, no of course I don't. This is a big chance to get some good recognition.

The obvious response to this is - make the marshals deal with it, 1 4 1 the culprits, hang em by their goolies, whatever. The problem with this is it deals with the problem after it has happened.

The Millennium commitee all agreed after Mayhem to try blind boxes at Toulouse and after the success there we agreed to keep them until the end of this season.

I really don't believe we will have them forever, but paintball is evolving so quickly that the right method of dealing with this problem will be with us very soon.

See you next week buddy, It'll be superb I promise you.

Niall

 

[Justin(Thunder)]

Niall,

I'm with you the zones worked great at Toulouse, but even then players occasionaly abused them. Untill ALL players can be trusted to keep their mouths shut (Which I think is the main problem, dead players interfering with marshalling) I guess the "blind boxes" have to stay.

Justin (Thunder)

 

[QuikSilver]

I think it's a retarded idea. In baseball, they do not make the players in the dug out face the wall so they can not see the game... WHY?! Because they want to watch the game! To cheer when they get a homerun, or tag a guy out.

I don't see how this will make paintball look any better to the public, but rather it will make everyone that plays look like 7 year olds that have to sit in the corner.

And how is this such a gigantic problem? Just put the deadz in the NETTED box, and if they mouth off just tell them to shut the **** up or ignore them.

| --"Turn around so you can't watch."--

 

[goose]

Netting - no netting - face the back - face the front - STAND ON YOUR HEAD for all I care. The problem with all of these is enforcement.

A scene from Stockholm (names have been changed to protect the innocent - but anyone who was there knows that it was happening all weekend):
"Team Dumb & Dumber Newbies" was playing their game and the refs where telling them to turn around, don't watch the game etc. - basically follow the rules - which they did. Then next game along come "Team King-of-the-Hill from U.S.A." who did nothing but try and find ways to watch from the deadzone - turning their heads half way, peeking through the banners hung or just plain ignoring the refs.

If the rules made say "turn around and face the other way" then everyone should be doing it - PERIOD - and penalties should be given if not. But the problem I see is that it's easy to call a 1-4-1 against say Bouja (no-offence guys) as opposed to Avalanche - no one wants to piss of Lasoya now do they??

Having a deadzone with netting (and even a protected area away from the deadzone for markers), in my opinion, would be the best - and if anyone comes out of it before the game is signalled to be over, then penalties should be assessed. But again it all comes down to having the "cajones" to call the penalty.


goose

 

[Justin(Thunder)]

I guess your missing the point, too many players can't be trusted to just watch the game after they are shot out. Of course if they could it would be much better to let them watch the game.

As for the blind boxes portraying a bad image to spectators, dead players mouthing off at marshalls doesn't exactly show a great image does it?

Oh, dead players shouldn't shout anything, it's too easy to use codes to signal or direct live players...

Justin (Thunder)

 

[Coran]

Just my thoughts...

I have to agree with Niall and Justin on this one.
Some players will look for every edge they can get including eliminated players 'directing' live players or acting as camoflage for dead man stand's. If a blind box is the only way to ensure that a game is not unduly influenced by eliminated players then a blind box it has to be.

Yes, it is sad that eliminated players don't get to watch the rest of the game, but is it not sadder that the Millenium organiser's had to take this step in the first place? They are, after all, reacting to players actions.

There will be lots of important people watching Campaign, and as Niall says, it's not worth letting a few 'bad apples' spoiling it for everyone else.

Maybe one day such measures will not be needed. I hope so and look forward to it.

 

[Pave]

Originally posted by goose
Netting - no netting - face the back - face the front - STAND ON YOUR HEAD for all I care. The problem with all of these is enforcement.



If the rules made say "turn around and face the other way" then everyone should be doing it - PERIOD - and penalties should be given if not. But the problem I see is that it's easy to call a 1-4-1 against say Bouja (no-offence guys) as opposed to Avalanche - no one wants to piss of Lasoya now do they??

goose

Goose hit the Nail on the head, This is exactly what pi$$ed us off. I don't like the rule, but I respect that it has its place in the evolution of paintball at this time.

I watched Pro's blatantly watching all the action without even having to try to conceal what they did. On the same field we get bollocked for looking at the field when our entire team is dead.

C'mon lets try something radical and have the same rules for everyone huh?

As for players directing their mates, this will still happen with players in a blind dead box. The teams that do this have people who are spectating and not necessarily even on the rosta.. Is someone gonna be watching the crowd for this, it does happen?

 

[Buddha 3]

Here's my opinion......

Basically, what the people who are 'pro blind box' are saying, is that paintballers are a bunch of no good, never to be trusted, bunch of hoodlums. Why would our game need such drastic measures, when no other sport in the world needs this. It's silly. In all sports there's people arguing with the refs. I'm totally with goose, it's about cojones. Why would someone need to be intimidated by, say, Lasoya (just using his name because I need a famous name, not to say he's a cheater)? It's not like he's got the physique to be able to kick everybody's ass....
There's no 'physical' threat at all, so all the refs need to do is stop being so damn star struck, and just ignore the shouting from the dead box and go by their OWN perception, not someone else's, just like they do in all other sports.
It's not as though a referee in footy is gonna change his mind after he gets shouted at by Beckham or some other over payed git. Rules should be enforced equally across the board. Also, the refs ought to have a little more 'tools' at their disposal. Things like banning players from the tournament. You bad mouth the ref; you get a warning right then and there, you keep it up, call Tyrone and get him to help pack your **** up, cause you're going home.....
I guess it's just a matter of the age old problem of the lack of trained, professional refs. However, I also understand Nial's points. But I think it's sad that measures like these are used to make up for the lack of quality judging.

This ia by the way not intended to slack off anybody who judges at these events. I know all of you mean well, and you are not to blame for the lack of direction and training that is given to referees. I think the millennium board should pick up the gauntlet, and set up a training program for refs. I know it's easy for me to say, but it can be done, I've seen similar things in so many other sports (hell, I've been involved in similar schemes).

Thanks for your time people, just sharing some thoughts.

Peace