New size paintballs?

[Chicago]

I disagree.
If 5 guys (never played before) play with splatmasters, for 3 days, then the most dextrous ones will, on the third day, be shooting at a higher rate of fire than the least dextrous, because, up to the point of maximum pheasable cycle-time, improvement is possible.

So therefore you can get better/faster at reloading a splatmaster with practice - (as fast as you can)
Billy ball is strictly limited to a preset maximum. - (as fast as you are allowed)

I will add that I have not used Billy-Ball in a game situation, only on a range, and I'm open to insight from people that have actually played games with it.

I agree that the effect of the learning curve is different - more experience/talent at billy ball will yield minuscule improvement in rate of fire, while more experience/talent with Splatmasters will yield more dramatic improvement in rate of fire.

But the end result is the same - ability to increase rate of fire is limited by equipment; one by electronics and one by mechanics. Billy Ball has the "advantage" that all players are limited to the same rate of fire.

So with regards to your earlier post that Billy Ball is frustrating because your rate of fire is limited, I still don't see the difference between electronically limited and mechanically limited. *ALL* guns have their rate of fire limited. It's just a matter of where that limit is, and how much talent/experience affects the limit. (electronic - not at all, mechanical, a lot)

I mean, if you're frustrated by one ball per two seconds, why aren't you frustrated by only 10 balls in one second? Everything is the same, except the strategy that results from the different rates of fire. I think what you're really saying is you just don't like paintball played at slow rates of fire. But that's no more or less valid than someone who doesn't like paintball played at high rates of fire. And as I learned with the splatmasters, slow-rate-of-fire paintball is quite a bit of fun.

 

[Buddha 3]

I'm pretty sure Tom Kaye had a bunch of video of paintballs not deforming...

Proves nothing. The fact that it can't be seen on a video means jack.
Fact is, everything deformes when force is applied. Even musket balls.

But this is just a minor point from a post that I was for the rest in full agreement with.

 

[Chicago]

Proves nothing. The fact that it can't be seen on a video means jack.
Fact is, everything deformes when force is applied. Even musket balls.

But this is just a minor point from a post that I was for the rest in full agreement with.

Ok, I didn't mean no deformation whatsoever at all, just not anything approaching significant deformation. Kinda like calling tap water water - it's not 100% water, but it's close enough that you can cal it water and not expect to be called out for it not being water.

So the video proves there isn't deformation significant enough to show on video. And if it's not significant enough to show on video, it's less significant than the paintball is 'deformed' from a perfect sphere just sitting there, since we don't make perfectly spherical paintballs in the first place.

Anyway, I think a lot of people think that when you shoot a paintball, it compresses from a sphere into something a little shorter and wider that fills up the barrel's cross section, which is demonstrably not true.

 

[Robbo]

I'm pretty sure Tom Kaye had a bunch of video of paintballs not deforming...

I was over at Tom's when he was doing some of that research at Air Gun Tech and I never saw any vids but I did see fast frame pics of paintballs being fired through a glass barrel.

The barrel was not only transparent, it was also able to be spun up at different speeds as it was mounted with a rubber wheel alongside.

Tom was a thorough man when it came to investigating a lot of the bollocks that was being talked about paintball ballistics.

As far as I remember there were pics where some deformation occurred but this did not come in the form of dimpling, this was due to the backside of the paintball experiencing an even pressure across its entire [semi] surface.

The [elastic] deformation occurred temporarily because as the paintball made its way down the barrel, the pressure applied to the back surface decreased thereby allowing the [elastic] deformation to reduce and eventually return to its original shape.

His research also put to bed any idea of a pressure bow wave in front of the paintball.
This 'alleged' bow wave was the reason some companies at the time were able to sell barrels with porting on the basis it dissipated the bow wave as the ball passed along the barrel and therefore the 'alleged' turbulence in front of the ball was not now affecting its trajectory, therefore making it more accurate.

The real effect of this porting wasn't to make it more accurate but it did make it quieter.

 

[Robbo]

So the video proves there isn't deformation significant enough to show on video. And if it's not significant enough to show on video, it's less significant than the paintball is 'deformed' from a perfect sphere just sitting there, since we don't make perfectly spherical paintballs in the first place.

Anyway, I think a lot of people think that when you shoot a paintball, it compresses from a sphere into something a little shorter and wider that fills up the barrel's cross section, which is demonstrably not true.

Chris, you are in no position to state anything; I have seen the elastic deformation of these balls in the stills Tom took, you patently have not.

Everything you say is speculation and therefore any conclusions you draw are groundless.

...... but just to clear things up in my head, is the bone of contention that wobble affects trajectory and that 'alleged' wobble is an emergent property of the elastic deformation a paintball undergoes when being fired?

 

[Chicago]

I don't think there's any point of contention.

What is 'plastic' deformation?

 

[Robbo]

Thanks to Buddha for pointing out I had used the word 'plastic' instead of the correct word, 'elastic' ...... and thanks to Chris for setting me up ...

Anyways, the post still stands :-

Elastic deformation is where an object is deformed by a force /pressure and returns to its original shape as against staying deformed.
Point being, if plastic deformation is occurring, as in the case of a paintball (but not always because if the force is great enough, the paintball will remain deformed or even broken) then the deformation is transitory.

That being the case, and also if that deformation is subtle in nature, it could easily be missed when looking at a real time video.

The high speed photographs that Tom had done, and that I have seen, showed many things that would not have been picked up by just looking at a vid, one of which was the deforming back side of the paintball as it was initially moving down the barrel and experiencing the maximum force of its trajectory.

I think we do have a bone of contention (difference) if you believe there is no deformation of the paintball as it is fired.
Correct me if I am wrong Chris...no doubt you will [try]

 

[Buddha 3]

I'd love to see those pictures.

Does anybody know if they are at all viewable somewhere in the darkest corners of the internet?

 

[Robbo]

I'd love to see those pictures.

Does anybody know if they are at all viewable somewhere in the darkest corners of the internet?

As we speak, Chris (Chicago) has dressed up Ninja style and is on his way over to Tom Kaye's house to destroy the pics rather than admit he was wrong on P8ntballer.com... hmmm...just had a thought tho, if he has taken that route then he would have to kill me as I have seen the pics and can testify to the deformation ..... Lordy, lordy, I am cr@pping me ole underpants at the very thought of Chris coming for me with violence on his mind .... would be like being attacked by an enraged koala bear.

Awwwww.....I'm being unfair tho because I have grown to like Chris over the past few years ..... Chris has some redeeming traits unlike our old friend broccolidwarf

 

[Piper]

As we speak, Chris (Chicago) has dressed up Ninja style and is on his way over to Tom Kaye's house to destroy the pics rather than admit he was wrong on P8ntballer.com... hmmm...just had a thought tho, if he has taken that route then he would have to kill me as I have seen the pics and can testify to the deformation ..... Lordy, lordy, I am cr@pping me ole underpants at the very thought of Chris coming for me with violence on his mind .... would be like being attacked by an enraged koala bear.

Awwwww.....I'm being unfair tho because I have grown to like Chris over the past few years ..... Chris has some redeeming traits unlike our old friend broccolidwarf

Does that mean I am in the firing line as well Pete? Cos I have also seen the said pictures and video and infact I was stood right next to you when I saw them! This was right before we went in the Kill House Tom had set up for the Chicago Police force!

Anyway let me know because I shall keep an eye out if that is the case