Millennium Series Announcement

[Robbo]

I am so pis4ed off at the moment, it seems, and people can correct me if I am wrong, that prik Boris Johnson has said he intends that all the half million illegal immigrants in London should be allowed to stay !!!!!!

WHAT????????????

They are fackin ILLEGAL !!!!!!

If I go and smash Boris's face in, I end up getting nicked because I deserve to, I committed a crime and the laws in this country apply to EVERYBODY I assume.
And so, I get punished in an appropriate way.
Who the hell is Boris to say he is gonna let these illegals off the due process of law?
Now that figure of half a million is but the tip of the iceberg, thats the number he knows of and I now ask the following questions:-
Where will they live, where will they work, whose health service they gonna use???
Whose social services will they come under????
What hospitals will they use??


As soon as you begin to answer any of those questions, you immediately begin to impact upon the English people who live here, who are legal, who have paid taxes, who deserve the social and health services we have built up.

These illegal immigrants will take our jobs, our homes, our money.
Every single one of them will suck on our society because if they ain't stealing our jobs and houses, they are poncing off of us.

If something is illegal, then we deal with it accordingly, that's the fackin law.

If Boris is now saying the law doesnt apply to some people, then as soon as he says that, I'm off to find out where he lives and explain to him the error of his ways ........if I coud have anything this Xmas, then please let it be that

[/rant]

 

[alexd]

And the biggest tragedy of all is, we sit back and let them do it as the fabric of all we once treasured erodes around us .....

So you're against full political and economic integration with Europe then...

 

[alexd]

... impact upon the English people who live here, who are legal, who have paid taxes, who deserve the social and health services we have built up.

These illegal immigrants will take our jobs, our homes, our money.
Every single one of them will suck on our society because if they ain't stealing our jobs and houses, they are poncing off of us.

The role of migration has been significant to England (Britain). Most of us are likely to have migration playing a role in our genealogy.

However, I share your concerns that those who have not contributed are able to obtain support. Yet migration by dividing into 2 groups.... political and economic, introduces additional perspectives.

1. Political migration, to avoid persecution should be supported, as it was pre-1939. We have a duty to protect, and I believe that this is a key attribute our nation has.

2. Economic migration should be interpreted differently, and there should be limits to avoid the concerns you raise being allowed.

Being able to differentiate between the two is difficult and it's in the interests for those migrating on economic basis to present a political need. Yet we also have very weak controls on migration, and people arrive and can just disappear into the grey economy.

Limiting economic migration will protect resources and jobs, which should be high priority given the recession we are in. By just accepting those here illegally will not stop the flow, but could send a signal that coming to the UK is worthwhile, as eventually you could achieve legal status to remain.

My pet hate is that we can't deport criminals to the home nation as it could harm their "human rights"... yet the rights of those impacted by the crime are ignored!

 

[Robbo]

Alex, you are self-evidently not an idiot, and I respect (though not entirely agree with) your stance on political migration.
We have similar views I think on economic migration and also on the irony of human rights being accorded to the very people who then go on to compromise the human rights of the people in the host nation ...

Whenever I look at problems like this, I have no agenda other than upholding whatever principles or notions of fair play / justice I have taken on board as an adult.
And in doing so, I can only see the capitulation of the immigration controls over to 'let every fuccah in' as a self serving device for the politicians and businessmen.

And the reason I think this is because, if we look at some of the rhetoric we get when immigration forces itself up the political agenda from the politicians, we hear phrases such as 'cultural diverstiy' (excuse me while I puke), 'economic necessity', 'wealth of the nation', blah blah, blah ...it's all complete bollox !!

The fact is, even if we assume all immigrants come here to work (laughable I know, to assume this) but for the sake of rebutting the politicians I will remain within their context, we (the English / British) do not benefit at all.

Think of it....foriegn labour forces wages down, makes more profit for the businesses.
The only econmic necessity I can fathom is to assuage the insatiable urge of business to make as much money for their owners as is humanly possible because average Joe English cannot and will never benefit from immigrant labour, either legal or illegal.

As for 'cultural diversity' so oft quoted by these politicains, gimme a frikkin break here, I ain't sitting at home on my sofa yearning to be culturally satiated, there is no need in me or for the vast majrity of the english peoples to be immersed in cultural diversificatoin, if we were, we would be witness to many other examples of the Brit peoples seeking this out....and we don't, we just don't witness it on a significant scale ...it's polotical bollox.

The whole idea of a nation yearning for cultural diversity is a device, it's a euphemistic soft landing for people who can't face up to facts.

In business, there will always be a need to cut costs, and if that cost cutting can be achieved at the expense of the host peoples then these businesses are gonna do it regardless...just look at call centers if you disbelieve me.

The banks, the big businesses etc do NOT care about us, they care about MONEY and that is all ....all of them are liars and cheats and the politicians either tacitly, intentionally or by pure lack of backbone are complicit to this dereliction of responsibility to the very peoples who they are supposed to represent ......but you must ask yourself why they adopt this stance?

Think about it.....the answer is as sickening as it is obvious to me .....

 

[alexd]

My interpretation of your earlier posts is that they have been driven from underpinning perspective of morality and ethics. To which you bring a structured and logical argument, and fundamentally this projects a readily supportable perspective. Therefore, an interpretation is that migrants with a similar view of the concepts of fairness and justice could / should be welcomed.

An alternative hypothesis is that a fresh perspective could broaden, and strengthen, the wider consensus. Or at the very least, it can provide an opportunity to validate an existing viewpoint. This is often labelled as cultural diversity, and can play a role, but an equilibrium should prevail.

Clearly our society strives has previously defend the right to elicit this discussion, yet the recent Police raid on the MP does imply that the police state could soon be upon us

Introducing cultural diversity does widen the discusion, should it be considered a "thing" or an individual value, much like fairness. Usually at this point the "PC Brigade" will wade in and then I get frustrated at ability for diversity to used to defend actions that can appear illogical.

To your final point, I agree, organisations are driven to reduce costs. You could argue this is the dark side of capitalism, but that does not negate the human cost. The recent example of Woolworths only highlights this; 30k jobs and the opportunity to sell as a going concern versus break up and sell the stores with the highest intrinsic value to create more supermarkets. The administrator are legally obliged to deliver the best financial return, so they impact 30k people, which excludes the wider family impact. Where is there fiduciary duty to the employees? Who sets the laws?

Fundamentally our politicians and business "elite" are detached from the perspectives they need. Their lifestyles and outlooks are not mirrors of the majority. This can also be extended to certain High Court judges, with their clear lack of common understanding when pronouncing judgements. Generally, those individuals have benefitted from education to a high standard, yet it is the cultural values (fairness, justice, decency etc) that appears to be so disconnected.

Could it therefore be concluded that morality and ethics are the cost of being at the "top"? And to bring it back on topic, can this be a "lens" to view certain methods and approaches to organising paintball tournaments in Europe....

 

[Robbo]

The longer I live and the more I encounter politicians and big business and their respective rhetoric (lies), the greater my belief in 'unconventional' approaches to getting one's self heard.

The inevitable mantras of, ' you have the power coz you have the vote' is a joke, I got no power whatsoever, the only power I can wield on politicians is a more direct and ultimately illegal approach.

I haven't always been a law-abiding individual in the sense of inappropriate use of physical actions but the average Joe, has a breaking point, and when that critical mass of disapproval with what our country has become finally reaches its climax, the target of that social displeasure, will run like little girls screaming at what confronts them .... what goes around, I hope comes around, these people need to be bought to book, the politicians won't do it to themselves and the businessmen, the law certainly doesn't do it, all that's left is for us to make a choice and decide, enough is enough .....
I ain't no political reactionary, I'm no anarchist, I'm just a normal guy who has seen my country and people sold down the river for money.

 

[Rider]

I haven't always been a law-abiding individual in the sense of inappropriate use of physical actions but the average Joe, has a breaking point, and when that critical mass of disapproval with what our country has become finally reaches its climax, the target of that social displeasure, will run like little girls screaming at what confronts them .... what goes around, I hope comes around, these people need to be bought to book, the politicians won't do it to themselves and the businessmen, the law certainly doesn't do it, all that's left is for us to make a choice and decide, enough is enough .....
I ain't no political reactionary, I'm no anarchist, I'm just a normal guy who has seen my country and people sold down the river for money.

and this i think is pretty much where greece have found themselves - hte people have been supressed by overzealous, indiscriminate police for many years. they have complained, demonstrated and reacted before with violence - and been ignored.

now the shooting of that poor kid sparked off a spiralling violence. the majority that are rioting it appears, are not the "true anarchists" that were first fingered, but for the most part the "normal" people - much of them university students who have been down trodden from one thing to another and have genuine grievance.

LA saw the same thing a few years back with the "race riots" - though that spiralled from genuine agrievance to general anarchy.

every one has there breaking point. every society will hit a turning point. it happened in leeds. i just wonder how much lower the Uk needs to go before it happens again.