Millennium Marshalling!!

[Jamie B]

on the subject of reffing lying down. On certain fields of which there are many in the millenium series, the only way it is possible to be on the field without being in the way of the players and their firing lines you have to be lying down. As well as this it is often vital in order to watch some one without giving there positon/move away.

I hate to sound like this but please refrain from being so opinionated about a subject you clearly have no knowledge or experience of.

 

[Mark]

Jamie did you click the link in my signature? Suggest you do before YOU make assumptions

I am the guy running, the two others you can see are both refs laying down who missed the player I am about to take out getting hit, one who is very close to the player...all because I WASN'T laying down.

 

[manike]

Another case of the infamous 'New Thread' Vs' 'Post Reply' button swapping syndrome...

It's hard sometimes huh?

Might want to add this to the correct thread Magued Or maybe a mod could merge them together and delete mine?

Seeya

 

[SPARKLIE CHICK]

Dear Jamie,
I don't know if you know mark personally but he has been reffing since 88/89 he has not reffed any millenniums as far as I am aware.

The team he plays for UK Cougars have an extremely good reputation both here in the UK and in the Usa were they have represented both English paintball players and marshals. The UKCougars have now been reffing in the USA for 5years and I doubt Bill Cookson (the Ultimate for the world cup) would invite them back to marshal world cup if they were not some of the best most diligent marshals around the world circuit.

This year I had the pleasure of being asked to go with the UK Cougars to World Cup and was the first female ultimate ever doesn’t tell me you have not seen the welts from 3 days reffing.

I think this dose qualify both Mark and myself to voice an option on this matter.

Personally I feel I can see more and give away less of the game as a standing observe, obviously there are times in the game depending on the fields, the players and what’s actually happening in the game when laying down crouching or even diving in there is the best or possibly the only option. But for most of us we are far more effective standing up most paintballers are not supple agile gymnast and to get back off the ground can be a chore in it's self once your down there. I may be broken but I can still leap about when necessary and run after 8 hours none stop reffing in a heat wave how many players would still be standing. Marshalling reffing call it what you like is mostly a thankless job no one in there right mind would do it simply for the money, for points maybe because they have to as part of a sponsorship deal or to enter an event then yes. But just look at the standards this has caused, don't get me wrong there are some really dedicated teams out there.

I cringed for the Tygers at Mayhem I caught a serious flu bug just watching them. They came in off the fields soaked to the skin and frozen but they were still there and doing a great job thought the event.

I think the team’s involved need to be committed and want to ref the events. If they are new or younger teams they need to be trained. I really hope the American pro Ref system takes off I am personally trying to address these and other issues with the M25 series, I feel that the British teams want to support this event and equally want to know how to do a good fair job. Hence calling in the UKPSF tourney marshals training team and inviting the teams who want to marshal the events to get trained.

This is only my personal option; I also found the JT brollys to be detrimental to the flow of the game.

I was committed to doing the best possible job I personally could at the time. Yes I did go out most nights but I can function more than efficiently and I don't get hangovers. Whilst reffs were dropping like fly’s I will admit I found the heat hard work the first day but I did not let it compromise my commitment manners or decisions on the field.

 

[sjt19]

Magued

My point was that just because the team has a pro status, does not automatically mean that thy would make great reffs. i do not see that there is anything wrong with thinking this.

Does this mean that in say footballing terms, a player from Manchester United would be a better referee than a player from one of the Vauxhall conference sides(a league well below the premiership)? i doubt it, they may be better, they may not.

Unless you have seen all the pros, ams and novs ref, then your statement was a little premature. I know of lots of Prop teams that are great refs, notably JOY Division, of whom you captain, but also SC Ironmen, Hardcore, Banzai, but i also know of good Am and nov refs. Being a good ref does not have any correlation to your position in the general sphere of the game, rather it relies directly on your understanding of the rules, your determination to properly enforce them and also your determination not to be bullied into changing your decision, or not making the correct one. You can be a nov, am or pro and be able to do this, similarly, you may be a nov, am, or pro and not be able to do this.

My reference to Dynasty was just to bring to light the danger of entrusting key descisions to teams that are merely interested in collecting the series points on offer rather than marshalling because they really want to.

sam

 

[Red_Merkin]

I've said before, that the quality of Judging can still be raised. There's some very good judges out there, and there's some teams who don't take it very seriously.

The only real problem i see with having more 'novice' (or am b as the case may be) is that sometimes these judges don't have the experince needed to make the right calls. They try hard, and they can probably explain the rules as good as the best, however they may not be able to make the split second decisions needed to make the right call.

Should we not use these judges? No of course not, but we need to couple them with experienced judges. This would help the quality of judging be more consistent.

We also need to evaluate the quality of the judging, and the organisers need to penalise judges that don't live up to their duties.

Mark: to sugest that one can't judge lying down is absurd, i doubt that you can tell whats going on if you're being pelted with paint because you're standing in a firing lane, especially when you are playing on small fields, and especially on the break out when everyone is chucking paint.

However the example you gave of diving in and getting the situation sorted out, is one that more judges should follow. That is much easier when you're on your feet, and ready for action.

In the Millenium series we are proud of the quality of our judging, we need to keep it that way.

 

[TJ Lambini]

>>>notably JOY Division, of whom you captain (sic),

Good job you told Mag he was captain of Joy or he'd never have known Sam...

 

[sjt19]

it was just in case he gets partial amnesia, he can look back here TJ

TJ- how come there is no daily snippet for the front page today?

sam

 

[Mark]

Originally posted by Red_Merkin
I've said before, that the quality of Judging can still be raised. There's some very good judges out there, and there's some teams who don't take it very seriously.

Mark: to sugest that one can't judge lying down is absurd, i doubt that you can tell whats going on if you're being pelted with paint because you're standing in a firing lane, especially when you are playing on small fields, and especially on the break out when everyone is chucking paint.

However the example you gave of diving in and getting the situation sorted out, is one that more judges should follow. That is much easier when you're on your feet, and ready for action.

In the Millenium series we are proud of the quality of our judging, we need to keep it that way.

I didn't say you can't lay down, the intention was the highlight the fact that you see judges on their bellys all the time these days, the game hasn't changed that much.....it is valid to lay down in some situations but not all. It is observation of this "trend" (first post I made). If you as a player see something done and it "appears" to work then you will adopt this observed technique when you play, to observe judges on their bellys and to "assume" it works for all situations is the point I was trying to make. Millenium/PSP/NPPL/whatever letter tournament it needs to be looked at. At the judges briefing for the NPPL (as was) you are told to ensure that you are seen to be patrolling the field not rooted to the spot, players can have tunnel vision but judges must not. I understand about keeping out of the firing lanes but on the break with a small field is the only time that to be on your belly is an advantage.

 

[Jamie B]

Mark, what makes you think i was talking about you?

ok, I'll admit i didnt look up your life history, and before i say this i want you to understand that this is not in any way an attack on you personaly! ok, just because some one has been doing something a long time it doesnt mean they have been doing it right, as this 'no lying down' thing is an opinon of many long established marshals who started in the woods, which as im sure you know is a completely differant game!

that aside, as for the photo, yes you were (i asume) right to be going in past your lying down friends as they are clearly not, moving. Now what i say to that is one of two things has happenend
1. they havent seen the move/hit, ergo theyre in the wrong place
2. they havent got the speed/reactions/will, to get up, in which case yes i agree they should be standing up some where else but should be replaced with a more suitable person.

I will agree with you on a lot of fields and in a lot of situations you will see marshalls lying down when there is clearly no need, but i will say there is more often than not a need for at least a couple of judges in the middle of the field lying down.

Take for example true colours, they are widely accepted as some of if not 'the' best judges on the millenium circuit. And having judged with them in the finals of the campaign cup last year I can tell you that if they are in the field, unless they are running to a player they are as close to the ground and as 'out of the way' as possible.

But i suppose in general Judging is more of an art than a science, so what ever you find works use it. Its a hard enough job without worrying whether people are going to complain youre not doing it the way you think is right!

im gunna stop now cuz my fingers hurt
laters