Mean Machine!! Joy Division A4

[Ben Frain]

Re: LJ and the big wooden ban stick...

Originally posted by stongle
New Angels always attract a huge amount of Hype (more than any other marker), as inevitably those who use them think they are mustard. In turn you always get those who have to say the exact opposite, often the extremes on both sides being relatively ill informed. I don't know if it's the hype or the love em or loathe em (from a usage perspective), that leads rise to this, but I don't see the above appealing to anybody other than existing Angel owners, sorry. I will say it probably is one of the best "bag of sand" guns outta the box, but you can't modify it enough to suit all tastes. To those shooting top end Timmies, Dm4's, Impies etc, which have had another "monkey" spent on upgrades (over and above the cost of the A4), the Angel "may" seem a little wanting, thus attracting unfair criticism.

Still, you pays your money and takes your pick.

Stongle, I am not arguing that Angels are perfect, and there is no 'perfect' marker. The point was that if somebody is going to say stuff like 'Angels are crap' they had better have some better argument than 'because I say so'. I just want to see a few more reasoned arguments than people simply siding with the marker they currently own, especially if they haven't owned the one they are slaggin off.

There is also an abundance of people reciting all the usual internet heresay of cockers shoot further/more accurately/round corners etc and perpetuating all manner of bogus marker myths. And before anyone starts, don't get me wrong, I love eblades as much as the next man, they just aren't blessed with magical powers. I'd read a post with interest that said Angels are crap as long as there is some reasonable evidence to back it up. In the absence of such evidence I think the chances of that are slim...

Wanting?
Spend as much as you want on upgrades for a Timmy/DM4/Impy/Eblade (see Chris, I'm thinking of you ) and I am still positive a standard A4 will be just as fast (users fingers aside). What would you want to upgrade on a top end timmy/Dm4 anyway? The only thing I can possibly think of to upgrade on a Dm4 would be the bolt if the Evolve one proves worth the wait. What else is there?

 

[Parksy]

I got to say I like it

 

[Collier]

Re: Re: LJ and the big wooden ban stick...

Originally posted by Chris - Nexus Eclipse
ahem....and e blades

Aherm and vikings/Excals....

Paul

 

[stongle]

I'm not saying that Angels are "crap" at all, I think that people sometime post to get arise out of others, as would appear in this case. OK so we know L J posted rubbish about Angels, by own admission he's never owned one, so not the best person to comment. People are always defensive or sensitive re their chosen marker, and for every numpty who posted nonsense about cockers, there's someone else saying that the A4 is the bestest / fastest / most accurate marker in the world. It really is a case of what goes around comes around. I know you don't do it, nor anybody else with an IQ in excess of 99 (including somewhat surprisingly myself), but there are people who are overly emotive about their choice of Marker.

I've said nice things about it (it is pretty in a gun way), but money where my mouth is, I do find that the characteristics of all Angels in a given model range to be the same. Compare that to other Markers say Impulses, and with the addition of certain upgrades you've got a totally different Marker.

Example a Strange Impy, probably comparable in price to an A4 (or maybe a little Cheaper), wouldn't shoot the same as Strange Impy with I-Frame and different internals. The user could effectively build the marker to his / her liking. Of course to fully customise an Impy you are talking A4 money and then some, and is far from a bargain gun. I don't feel the A4 gives as much latitude here (well my Ir3 Fly never did), and will either be too peoples liking or not.

Same way some people don't get on with cockers, I think the difference or comfort you feel with a gun, often makes an imaginary performance increase in peoples brains. Hence if you find it easier to rip a certain type of gun, it instantly becomes a better gun full stop. Am I confuzzling you or even myself here?

Oh and on e-blades, I'm going to commit heresy here, in my opinion they don't pack the same easily accessible firepower as Matrixes and Timmies. Although I'm willing to accept that may be imaginary also, as Dave now has my Nexus and thinks it's the "fastest gun he's ever shot". Hairy muff, I've not used the new Samurai Triggers, but you gotta wonder why it's been lightened especially if Dm4s and Alias Timmies are so, ummmm naughty.

 

[Ben Frain]

No, that didn't confuse, I get what you are getting at now.

However I think that argument is more limted to your first love (impy's) and cockers. I don't really think you can chop and change that much on Timmy's and DM4's...

 

[Collier]

Lighter trigger's bounce more, at least thats what I've found, not true in all cases though I'll except...
I'd also agree that to me closed bolt guns don't feel as fast as open, although I've bought myself an Excal just to see if I can proove myself otherwise, and the eblades I've used have been damn easy to fire fast....

Paul

 

[stongle]

Ben,

Well, I'd argue that the Bolt upgrade on a DM4 considerably changes the gun. It might not feel different shooting it, but the consistency increase (of which I'd say boggo is the DM4s Achilles heel), allows the marker to compete at 7 man as well as X.

Such an upgrade significantly alters the gun (IMHO). Not much else out there just yet, but I wouldn't be surprised to see other upgrades in the future.

Similarly with the boards in Timmies, although I'm probably on very dangerous territory here mind you everything comes as WAS or above now (I think), so point taken.

And there's no end to what you can do to a cocker.

Paul,

Thanks for the technical reason to something I could never quite put me finger on. It may be purely imagined, but they do feel quicker.......mysterious. See you Saturday, I'll have the rail gun with me!

 

[Ben Frain]

I don't think there is any debate that open bolt are faster off the mark on the first shot is there?

Open bolt just slams forward on a ball already in place.

With an closed it has to come back, ball goes in place and then bolt goes forward and fires.

Now this all happens in a split second but how could a closed bolt be faster?

Note: I know that both are so quick it makes feck all tangible difference in a 'real' situation, I am just curious...

 

[Collier]

Originally posted by Ben Frain
I don't think there is any debate that open bolt are faster off the mark on the first shot is there?

Open bolt just slams forward on a ball already in place.

With an closed it has to come back, ball goes in place and then bolt goes forward and fires.

Now this all happens in a split second but how could a closed bolt be faster?

Note: I know that both are so quick it makes feck all tangible difference in a 'real' situation, I am just curious...

By nature of operation closed bolt shouldn't be faster, but then you get into the realms of pnumatics, bolt materials electrics etc etc etc.
This side by side comparisson shows the speed difference between an open bolt (viking) and closed bolt (excalibur)

Paul

 

[stongle]

I think it is an imaginary thing, pure and simple.

Whats the Debounce adjustability like on the A4 Flys???