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London attacks - what's going on???

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duffistuta

Guest
Originally posted by Robbo
No Probs Paul, here goes mate :-

Excuse me while I just shut the door of my ivory tower in suburbia and put aside my copy of the Guardian in favour of reading 'vegetarianism for free thinkers'.

We need not to create anarchy but allow everybody to do as they wish, no governmental intervention with the police eventually being disbanded and we could have little communes responsible for all matters.

We should open our borders to all our fellow world friends no matter what their reason for coming, we should welcome everybody.

We shouldn't imprison killers, rapists and paedophiles, we should welcome them back into society and work with them to change them into free loving people but upholding their rights to freedom.


Paul, sorry mate, I can't go on with this charade any longer as I realise that there are actually people out there who think like this and it makes me wanna vommit.
OK, if you want to play silly buggers:

"Do what you want, bang up or kill anyone who looks or acts like they may possibly be a terrorist, introduce a police state, make me walk through checkpoints to get to the local shop, forbid me from leaving the city in which I live - I don't care what you do as long as I'm safe."

Paul, sorry mate, I can't go on with this charade any longer as I realise that there are actually people out there who think like this and it makes me wanna vomit.

As the debate is going in this direction, I'm going to bow out and retire to my ivory tower with my copy of Vegetarianism for Free Thinkers.

Cheers.
 

Robbo

Owner of this website
Jul 5, 2001
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Originally posted by duffistuta
OK, if you want to play silly buggers:

"Do what you want, bang up or kill anyone who looks or acts like they may possibly be a terrorist, introduce a police state, make me walk through checkpoints to get to the local shop, forbid me from leaving the city in which I live - I don't care what you do as long as I'm safe."

Paul, sorry mate, I can't go on with this charade any longer as I realise that there are actually people out there who think like this and it makes me wanna vomit.

As the debate is going in this direction, I'm going to bow out and retire to my ivory tower with my copy of Vegetarianism for Free Thinkers.

Cheers.

I refer you to the post I made on the previous page.....re the Greeks.....
 

Ben Frain

twit twoo
Sep 7, 2002
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In a tree
In a related aside, what do you all make of this? A good or bad idea?

"This is a turning point: we have to fly the flag for Britishness again
By Boris Johnson
(Filed: 14/07/2005)

I have already had enough about how perfectly normal these young men were, and what charming fellows they were, and how there was nothing they loved more than serving in dad's chip shop or helping an old lady across the street or a good game of cricket in the park.



"All he wanted to do was have a laugh," said one of the neighbours last night, about one of the sick quartet responsible for killing themselves and at least 52 others in London. "He was sound as a pound." Yeah, right. If these four young men were perfectly normal Yorkshiremen, then what the hell is happening to this country? Of all the shattering revelations of the past few days, the worst has been that these suicide bombers were British.

They were our very own. They were as British as a wet bank holiday. They were as British as Tizer, and queues and Y-fronts and the Changing of the Guard, and the chips that made them what they were. They were born in British maternity wards, and attended by every comfort that the state could give.

They went to British primary schools and learnt about Britain from British teachers, and when they murdered so many of their fellow Britons it was the British emergency services who tried to save what lives they could.

That shocking fact of their Britishness tells us something frightening about them and about us, because, as suicide bombers go, they are unusual. When the Palestinian bombers attack Jerusalem or Tel Aviv, they usually come from miserable lives in Nablus or Hebron. When the 19 suicide bombers destroyed the Twin Towers they originated, without exception, from the Arab world, mainly Saudi Arabia.

We seem to have pulled off the rare feat of breeding suicide bombers determined to attack the very society that incubated them; and the question is why. Why does America import its suicide bombers, while we produce our own? Last summer we had a magnificent holiday driving around America, and for a cynical Brit it was astonishing to see the way the Americans fly that flag of theirs.

On every porch, on every flagpole, on every bumper: there were the stars and stripes, unabashed, exuberant, proud. Contrast our treatment of the Union Flag, which is endlessly being cited in racial harassment cases, on the ground that it is provocative merely - for instance - to stick it on your locker. Remember Bob Ayling, the Labour-supporting businessman who succeeded the late, great Lord King at British Airways, and decided that the Union Flag was so too embarrassing that he stripped it from the tailfins of his planes.

The Americans would be mystified by our approach to a national symbol. For them the flag is a vital agent of integration, a way of asserting that, in that vast immigrant country, each person is not only American but equally American, and has an equal stake in society. That is why American children still begin their day at school by pledging allegiance to the flag, and that is why the Americans show a patriotism and a simple enthusiasm for their own country that our jaded British sensibilities find childish.

Well, if you consider what is taught in British schools - and when you think that one of the killers was actually a primary school teacher - it is hard to deny that in their assessment of what a nation needs to stick together, the Americans are right, and we are tragically wrong. It is not just that most British children no longer know much about British history (13 per cent of 16- to 24-year- olds think the Armada was defeated by Hornblower, and six per cent ascribe the great naval victory to Gandalf).

The disaster is that we no longer make any real demands of loyalty upon those who are immigrants or the children of immigrants. There are many culprits, and foremost among them is Enoch Powell. As Bill Deedes has pointed out over the years, the problem was not so much his catastrophic 1968 tirade against immigration, but the way he made it impossible for any serious politician to discuss the consequences of immigration, and how a multiracial society ought to work.

In the wake of Powell's racist foray, no one had the guts to talk about Britishness, or whether it was a good thing to insist - as the Americans do so successfully - on the basic loyalty of immigrants to the country of immigration.

So we have drifted on over the intervening decades, and created a multi-cultural society that has many beauties and attractions, but in which too many Britons have absolutely no sense of allegiance to this country or its institutions. It is a cultural calamity that will take decades to reverse, and we must begin now with what I call in this morning's Spectator the re-Britannification of Britain.

That means insisting, in a way that is cheery and polite, on certain values that we identify as British. If that means the end of spouting hate in mosques, and treating women as second-class citizens, then so be it. We need to acculturate the second-generation Muslim communities to our way of life, and end the obvious alienation that they feel.

That means the imams will have to change their tune, and it is no use the Muslim Council of Great Britain endlessly saying that "the problem is not Islam", when it is blindingly obvious that in far too many mosques you can find sermons of hate, and literature glorifying 9/11 and vilifying Jews.

We have reached a turning-point in the relations between the Muslim community and the rest of us, and it is time for the moderates to show real leadership. That is why I want to end with the words of my Labour colleague Shahid Malik, MP for Dewsbury, who said yesterday: "The challenge is straightforward - that those voices that we have tolerated will no longer be tolerated, whether they be on the streets, in the schools, in the youth clubs, in the mosque, in a corner, in a house.

We need to go beyond condemning. We need to confront." Well said, Shahid; and it is time for the imams to follow."
 

Robbo

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That pretty much says it all for me...other than the fact the notion of 'American' is somewhat diminished when diffeernt American groups always seem to be want to known as 'Irish' Americans or Afro Americans or Italian Americans and so on.
It implies the emphasis on identity as being the country of origin as against the country of residence.

To tell the truth as far as I perceive my nationality going, I am English, not British.
 

pestilence

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Jul 6, 2001
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We have reached a turning-point in the relations between the Muslim community and the rest of us, and it is time for the moderates to show real leadership. That is why I want to end with the words of my Labour colleague Shahid Malik, MP for Dewsbury, who said yesterday: "The challenge is straightforward - that those voices that we have tolerated will no longer be tolerated, whether they be on the streets, in the schools, in the youth clubs, in the mosque, in a corner, in a house.
Then came the night of long knives........ No? Well with that kind of rhetoric, how far away are we?

Please, it's insulting at best.

Robbo - forgive me, i thought you'd posted that you'd had your fill of this thread. From my previous post, I would comment that only through education and having an open mind can you come to the only conclusion that makes any sense. Let the Law and governemnt do it's job - but it must not erode the civil liberties of it's own people to do so. I live in a democracy, where I'm free to do anything I want. I would like it to remain that way. If not - you let the buggers win. We twist ourselves into the very thing that 'the forces of good' are fighting against.............
 

Robbo

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Originally posted by pestilence
Then came the night of long knives........ No? Well with that kind of rhetoric, how far away are we?

Please, it's insulting at best.

Robbo - forgive me, i thought you'd posted that you'd had your fill of this thread. From my previous post, I would comment that only through education and having an open mind can you come to the only conclusion that makes any sense. Let the Law and governemnt do it's job - but it must not erode the civil liberties of it's own people to do so. I live in a democracy, where I'm free to do anything I want. I would like it to remain that way. If not - you let the buggers win. We twist ourselves into the very thing that 'the forces of good' are fighting against.............
How wonderful, how spiffing, how truly mind boggling that we allow our citizens to go train in terrosrist training camps for months on end only to come back here and be free to go about their 'business'....and you advocate this degree of 'laisser-faire' from the standpoint of rational and inetlligent thought ???

Give me a break Pesty !!!
 

pestilence

www.ppemporium.com
Jul 6, 2001
287
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How wonderful, how spiffing, how truly mind boggling that we allow our citizens to go train in terrosrist training camps for months on end only to come back here and be free to go about their 'business'....and you advocate this degree of 'laisser-faire' from the standpoint of rational and inetlligent thought ???
So what else do you do, live under martial law? - cos that worked sooooo well behind the Iron curtain.........

If not where to you draw the line?

Face it. These scum will go off to thier training camps, make fertilizer bombs, etc - you cant stop them. If they are motivated enought o blow themselves to hell, then I'm sure they are motivated enough to dodge ID cards and stop and search, etc. I'm not going to rehash ground that has been covered by so many previously. I just think it's a little naieve to think that you cna stop them so eaily. Sure - in light of the current situation, I think they should back Mr howards call for a review, how ever -they should not let it turn into a withch hunt.

Time up - I'm offski. Have a good day mr Robbo sir :)