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Joy Stockholm official comment on OC NPPL

Chicago

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It looks like you may be beginning to understand.

You are absolutely correct that a rule shouldn't have more or less impact at one time in the match than another (unless the benefits of breaking the rule are different - more benefits, stiffer penalty is necessary). Which is one reason why the 90-second rule is necessary.

If, 5 minutes into an NXL match, I am assessed a major penalty, not only do I lose a teammate on THIS point, my team will play one man short for the next 5 minutes. As I'm sure you would agree, this is a pretty devastating penalty and it is very likely that because of my major penalty, my opponent is going to score an additional point or two points or even three points in the next 5 minutes while I'm stuck playing a man down.

Now, lets say my opponent commits the same infraction that I did, only they did it with 60 seconds left in the match. Same infraction, same penalty, only I had to play short for 5 minutes, and they only have to play short for 60 seconds. This is, very simply, not fair.


That is one reason why the 90 second rule exists. Without it, a major penalty in the final seconds of the game is a much smaller penalty than a major penalty any other time during the match.


That's not the only reason though. There are two other reasons:

1) At the end of the match, you want to prevent people from committing fouls to wind down the game time. If I'm up one or two points, and I can burn 15-20 seconds off the clock by playing on, I should play on, because the only thing that's going to happen is that I get a major penalty. But I don't care - losing a guy doesn't matter since my real goal is to end the match while I'm ahead. The 90-second rule prevents teams from burning game time by cheating.

2) At the end of the game, I know exactly what the score is, and my payoff for cheating is potentially MUCH higher than doing so any other time during the match. If I'm down a point, or tied, or even up a point, not leaving the field when I'm hit can definitively make a difference as to whether I win the match or not. This isn't true 5 minutes after the match starts. And when the penalty for potentially winning the match is I lose a body for this point (because after this point the match is over), I'm not going to leave the field. It is not smart to do so. But if the penalty is, I lose this point, and lose the match, then my payoff relative to the penalty is more likely to be effective at insuring I don't intentionally cheat.


You may not like the 90-second rule, but you'll like what a smart team does without a 90-second rule even less.
 

Baca Loco

Ex-Fun Police
1--It looks like you may be beginning to understand.

2--You are absolutely correct..

3-- ..that a rule shouldn't have more or less impact at one time in the match than another..

4 -- ..(unless the benefits of breaking the rule are different - more benefits, stiffer penalty is necessary). Which is one reason why the 90-second rule is necessary.

5--That is one reason why the 90 second rule exists.

6-- The 90-second rule prevents teams from burning game time by cheating.

7-- You may not like the 90-second rule, but you'll like what a smart team does without a 90-second rule even less.
1--:)
At least you're putting up a better, if still ultimately doomed, effort.

2-- yes, I am.

3-- Nice effort to use that 'or less' in there and then try to rationalize your whole argument off that one tiny bit of prestidigitation but that still leaves you trying to explain why only a Major penalty--still assigned at the official's discretion--gets some extra oomph within the 90 second window and a Minor doesn't as plainly the full effect of the Minor is also "diminished" if your rationale is to be accepted.

4--even with you're qualification you're still dancing. A rule shouldn't have more or less impact --except when it should have more impact so that it doesn't have less. :D That may work in Wisconsin ... :rolleyes:

There is also a world of difference in imagining there are "benefits" from breaking rules and getting caught and suggesting there is an inequality of punishment. I don't buy either one but your continued suggestion that the issue is a team or player benefiting from breaking the rules when caught doing so goes a long way to explaining your p.o.v. It is also, IMO, a poor position to evaluate and make rules from.

5--No, that is one reason you made up for why you think the 90 second rule is a good one. Same with your other reasons. The fact is, regardless of the rationales, the rule is problematic when considering what the "rules" are and should be as you have amply demonstrated in attempting to dance around the parts of my argument you can't actually answer.

6--this one is pure desperation and is almost totally divorced from the reality of actually playing the game. Though it did make me smile.
Btw, 4 of the 6 Major penalty definitions listed in the rulebook have nothing to do with any sort of playing on. Are you still prepared to award a point in the last 90 seconds for any Major?

7--I feel pretty confident saying I deal with reasonably smart teams all the time and I also happen to have actual experience both with and without the rule in place. So on that score I know what I'm advocating. But I do appreciate your concern. :p
 

Robbo

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You're married, right? Surely you've had an argument with your wife where you were 100% correct, yet lost it anyway...

If your wife wins those arguments with sexuality, I congratulate you. Mine wins by using feminine logic, which is just impossible to argue against.

For example:

"Honey, you need to stop leaving your dirty dishes in the living room!"

"You've been out late drinking with your buddies three times this week! And we've been at your family's for Christmas two years in a row! And I wanted BLUE napkins at the wedding!"

See how that works?

I don't either.

Chi Town, good point mate, when you put it like that, I understand completely.
It's just that when people use the words 'female logic', it flags up the word oxymoron in my head for some reason, but after being around women all my life, I think I know why.
Good luck with Baca, he will be like putty in your hands :)
 

Robbo

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1--:)
At least you're putting up a better, if still ultimately doomed, effort.

2-- yes, I am.

3-- Nice effort to use that 'or less' in there and then try to rationalize your whole argument off that one tiny bit of prestidigitation but that still leaves you trying to explain why only a Major penalty--still assigned at the official's discretion--gets some extra oomph within the 90 second window and a Minor doesn't as plainly the full effect of the Minor is also "diminished" if your rationale is to be accepted.

4--even with you're qualification you're still dancing. A rule shouldn't have more or less impact --except when it should have more impact so that it doesn't have less. :D That may work in Wisconsin ... :rolleyes:

There is also a world of difference in imagining there are "benefits" from breaking rules and getting caught and suggesting there is an inequality of punishment. I don't buy either one but your continued suggestion that the issue is a team or player benefiting from breaking the rules when caught doing so goes a long way to explaining your p.o.v. It is also, IMO, a poor position to evaluate and make rules from.

5--No, that is one reason you made up for why you think the 90 second rule is a good one. Same with your other reasons. The fact is, regardless of the rationales, the rule is problematic when considering what the "rules" are and should be as you have amply demonstrated in attempting to dance around the parts of my argument you can't actually answer.

6--this one is pure desperation and is almost totally divorced from the reality of actually playing the game. Though it did make me smile.
Btw, 4 of the 6 Major penalty definitions listed in the rulebook have nothing to do with any sort of playing on. Are you still prepared to award a point in the last 90 seconds for any Major?

7--I feel pretty confident saying I deal with reasonably smart teams all the time and I also happen to have actual experience both with and without the rule in place. So on that score I know what I'm advocating. But I do appreciate your concern. :p


Dammit Chicago, you gotta be feeling like Clyde Barrow with all those bullet things flying around :)
 

Robbo

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I want to report a thread jacking, can anybody point me to a mod?
Baca? Pete? Beaker?:rolleyes:

Magued

Let me explain something Mag, when forum members threadjack, this of course can be rightfully classified as such but...when a mod deviates from the base subject, this has to be understood as .....hmmmmm....lemme think about this for a moment, let's call it a 'necessary refocusing from above' .... yeh I quite like that, it has a nice ring of authority about it :)

Anyway Mag, stop your bitching mate, the point of this thread has been well made and has a great result. Joy come out of this debacle smelling of roses and Dynasty come out of it smelling of sh!te :)
Facts speak for themselves and the camera never lies, only people do that, don't they Dan, Alex, BC........? Unfortunately this particular list would embrace every pro player alive so I will stop there.

Take it easy Mag.
 

Chicago

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I want to report a thread jacking, can anybody point me to a mod?
Baca? Pete? Beaker?:rolleyes:

Magued
Yeah, how did this NXL penalty discussion thread end up with a title about Joy Stockholm? Clearly some sort of discipline for whoever put up the misleading thread title is in order.