Is Reunification still in the cards?

[Chicago]

How it's better for the players..

Paintball tournaments cost money to run. That money, absent out-of-industry investment, is about half from team entry fees, and about half from vendor fees. The problem right now is almost nobody on the vendor side can afford to attend events for two leagues. So all of that vendor money is split. One league, you double the amount of vendor money available, which amounts to a 33% increase in your budget. 30% more money to spend on events = better events.

NOt to mention the numerous other ways where having one league pays off for the sport as a whole.

 

[Robbo]

good post for the most part Mr Point, I would add the following though.

After PSP Chicago the grass there was ruined. I have a girlfriend that lives in Bollingbrook 3 blocks away from that venue, and what was once green grass, is now destroyed. The NPPL had an option to go on grass in LA, but that grass would have been destroyed also. That would mean either a. Pay for it to be re-surfaced, or b. don't go back. Short term/sighted thinking would say lets just whack it on the grass. But that isn't the smart move.

No-one has blood on thier hands, les not get carried away, If you know the full history and story of the leagues for the last 10-15 years then you will know that the progress that has been made since 2003 is incredible. Money is what holds things back, not the people running the leagues. If both leagues had enough money, they would fix the problems they have immediately, that goes for the PSP and the NPPL. No-one has short-sighted plans. You need to give the people in both leagues a lot more credit than that. It is these people that have raised the bar in the last 3 short years.

Missy, come on mate, we both know it's a combination of money and the people involved in the two leagues that have held things back and I can prove that to you easily enough by asking you to indulge in a little thought experiment.

Just imagine that when you guys split from the original NPPL fold over 3 years back, if you had all been able to work together for the past 3 years then the following combine would have had the best of both worlds.

The collective would have the combined finances of the most powerful guys in the industry and coupled with your guys undoubted ability to promote, I will now pose you this question :- Do you think, the progress that group would have made would be similar or more advanced than it is now?

Now, if you have one atom of grey matter in your head (and I know for a fact you are one bright mofo) then there is NO way you are gonna try and tell me anything other than the combine would be at a much more advanced stage of development in terms of taking our sport forward than it is now.
And once you acknowledge that, you then have to acknowledge that necessarily, the people in the two leagues have been holding us back.....

Nah, I ain't having that mate, it's not just money, it's the people in the two leagues. We are in this mess as a direct result of decisions being made by both sides and opportunities being missed or ignored.
Only when people in the two leagues begin to accept this will we begin to fix the problem because all the time we think it's just money, then we will never address the real problem.....us !

 

[MissyQ]

Pete, maybe I am indulging myself in some forward thinking here.
You will hear something in San Diego that will satisfy you that, at least from the NPPL side, there have been moves made that remove a likely obstacle to unification. Not the only one, of course, but a significant one nonetheless.
No more on that though, you will hear the news at the event.

Which leaves money, and the PSP partners' perpetual inclination to back SP and Braun instead of themselves removing obstacles to a merge, which as you know, is something I strongly advocate for all the reasons above and more.

Chicago, you don't get it. And I can't be bothered to answer you to put you straight, its just not worth it. Sorry.

Mr Point - I like your style, old-skool ball is dead though. The trick to unification is to do it while not taking a single step backwards, that means that the better venues have to stay. Chicago is in cloud cuckooland with his post on going back to grass. He has not spoken to any sponsors/networks and clearly does not understand the importance of high profle venues to them. Once you have been on here a while you will find that he likes to make a bunch of statements, without having one ounce of substance to back them up.

 

[Chicago]

He has not spoken to any sponsors/networks and clearly does not understand the importance of high profle venues to them.

I can absolutely guarantee that you are mistaken. You are mistaken about who I've spoken with, you are mistaken about what sponsors/networks consider high-profile (high profile and grass are not mutually exclusive) and you are mistaken about the relative importance placed on location compared to other far more important shortcomings we have as a sport.

 

[MissyQ]

Whatever Chicago.

 

[SPHEREPOINT]

Missy- I agree that high profile venues, once achieved, have to stay. Putt-Putt courses and paintball fields constitute regression of the highest level of the sport. Semi-auto guns will also lead to growth, allowing more movement and more skill in the game. The regulation of said guns is still a pipe dream at this point though.

Chicago- While TV is a way, I did not mention that TV is part of the equation for paintball balance and prosperity. TV is a Pandora's box, and it has the capability to ruin the game that many of us have helped nurse from the woods into its current state. By giving ourselves over to TV, we are delivering our sport to people who have no true vested interest in and more importantly, no moral obligation to what is right for paintball. That is what we need to be doing now, as one focused group- what is best for paintball. TV may be it, but the answer may just as easily be to run from the execs in the slick suits.

 

[Baca Loco]

Missy- I agree that high profile venues, once achieved, have to stay. Putt-Putt courses and paintball fields constitute regression of the highest level of the sport.

Semi-auto guns will also lead to growth, allowing more movement and more skill in the game. The regulation of said guns is still a pipe dream at this point though.

--no moral obligation to what is right for paintball. That is what we need to be doing now, as one focused group- what is best for paintball. TV may be it, but the answer may just as easily be to run from the execs in the slick suits.

S-point, glad to have you on board however ... I couldn't let a couple of your comments pass unremarked on. (And what's up with the all caps?)

Why do you equate a so-called high profile venue with a high profile event? Were you in Boston, er, Foxboro? The stadium was great, the parking lot less so but in either case the place is out in the middle of nearly nowhere.
Beyond that just what has two years or so of high profile venues managed to deliver to, um, Paintball so far? Just asking.

Tha whole semi- nonsense continues to amaze me. What sort of semi will lead to growth? Growth above and beyond what? Growth like before the current electros came on the scene? And how does a less demanding or dangerous game environment engender more skill? Skill at what? Twitching your finger?

At what point in time did the powers of paintball acting in concert unquestionably do the "right thing" for paintball's future that you have some hope or expectation that reunification with the current powers neceassarily means anything particularly positive? If it ain't happened so much in the past why would the future, with the same crew, be any different? Your dream suggests you imagine the powers are interested in what's best for paintball. What ever gave you that idea?

 

[Chicago]

Chicago- While TV is a way, I did not mention that TV is part of the equation for paintball balance and prosperity. TV is a Pandora's box, and it has the capability to ruin the game that many of us have helped nurse from the woods into its current state. By giving ourselves over to TV, we are delivering our sport to people who have no true vested interest in and more importantly, no moral obligation to what is right for paintball. That is what we need to be doing now, as one focused group- what is best for paintball. TV may be it, but the answer may just as easily be to run from the execs in the slick suits.

I absolutely agree. But, lots of others seem to think that being on TV is 'the win', without realizing that we have not done the things we need to do for paintball on TV to be successful. And Missy is a prime example of this if she thinks the reason the free airtime deal didn't pan out has anything to do with Smart Parts.

If we do the right things to establish the sport, the TV part will pretty much work itself out.

 

[Robbo]

Pete, maybe I am indulging myself in some forward thinking here.
You will hear something in San Diego that will satisfy you that, at least from the NPPL side, there have been moves made that remove a likely obstacle to unification. Not the only one, of course, but a significant one nonetheless.
No more on that though, you will hear the news at the event.

Which leaves money, and the PSP partners' perpetual inclination to back SP and Braun instead of themselves removing obstacles to a merge, which as you know, is something I strongly advocate for all the reasons above and more.

Chicago, you don't get it. And I can't be bothered to answer you to put you straight, its just not worth it. Sorry.

Mr Point - I like your style, old-skool ball is dead though. The trick to unification is to do it while not taking a single step backwards, that means that the better venues have to stay. Chicago is in cloud cuckooland with his post on going back to grass. He has not spoken to any sponsors/networks and clearly does not understand the importance of high profle venues to them. Once you have been on here a while you will find that he likes to make a bunch of statements, without having one ounce of substance to back them up.

Missy, I am already aware of the 'bombshell' you are gonna drop and I think it's the first step and one that should have been taken quite some time ago; as you know I have been advocating this particualr course of action for some time now...
The plot thickens and the wheels turn, one inside another !


PS You worked out who sphere is??
Hee hee - I might have; by default, he is one of the new NPPL's finest and most loyal supporters

'by default' should give you the clue you need and if that ain't enough think about this saying that I have *******ised a tad...'if your (little) enemy is my (little) enemy, then that makes you my friend' ..... getting warmer yet Missy?
I could be wrong tho ..

 

[Chicago]

Tha whole semi- nonsense continues to amaze me. What sort of semi will lead to growth? Growth above and beyond what? Growth like before the current electros came on the scene? And how does a less demanding or dangerous game environment engender more skill? Skill at what? Twitching your finger?

I'd settle for an 8 bps cap. I really don't care too much about 15 bps at the National level. It is incredibly damaging to the sport at the local level. And this is one of the examples of 'failing to see the big picture'. Ramping does a great job of solving the immediate problem of gun cheats in national tournaments, but at a lage expense of having paintball be increasingly less fun for people who try it out. It would be one thing if that tradeoff had eben made as the r esultof an informed decision, but the powers that be never even thought about it.

On a game mechanics front, semi-auto would demand players learn to lead moving targets instead of just putting a 15 bps stream somewhere and waiting for players to run through it. 15 bps is fast enough that if you run through it, you're pretty much going to get hit. 8 bps is not; at that ROF, you need to move yuor stream with your target, or correctly predict howmuch you need to lead your target for your paintballs to get there the same time your target does. (Or learn to be in positions where big moves require your opponent to run more towards you.) 'Twitchy fingers' is only one o several skills put at the mercy of an easy 15 bps.

At what point in time did the powers of paintball acting in concert unquestionably do the "right thing" for paintball's future that you have some hope or expectation that reunification with the current powers neceassarily means anything particularly positive? If it ain't happened so much in the past why would the future, with the same crew, be any different? Your dream suggests you imagine the powers are interested in what's best for paintball. What ever gave you that idea?

Couldn't hurt to put the league in a better financial condition.