ION QEV - More Con than Pro?

[Mazz005]

I'm a bit bemused by the whole ION needing a QEV thing.

Through a bit of research and talking to a few people, this is what I have come up with.

A QEV will NOT make your stock ION shoot faster. The board is capped at 17bps. The solenoid will cycle it at 17bps. There is no need for a QEV. The QEV may, in fact, let you shoot the 17 a bit quicker than a second but once 17 balls has been reached it will stop firing for a split second then go again.

If you want a faster shooting ION (say 19-20 bps) you need to get the upgraded chip board. Still, there will be no need for the QEV because the solenoid will be upgraded to cope with the 19-20bps.

As far as QEVs go, on an UNCAPPED board (I.E Autococker) they may well allow the bolt to cycle faster and you will squeeze out a few more shots, but on an electronicly capped board I am pretty sure a mechanical device will not overcome an electronic block (I.E 17 times is how many times the board will allow the bolt to cycle)

I'd suggest saving your money and spending it on something that will be more practical.

If you can prove to us how a QEV will allow a standard CAPPED ION board to shot more than 17bps please can you post up and prove it to us because I would like to know for future reference.

As for efficiency, to a certain extent a QEV will make you marker more air efficient - Which is good! I won't go into the complicated workings of this but suffice to say a solanoid always vents a portion of the gas coming into your marker, therefore with a QEV it doesn't! ... QED!!

HOWEVER... A solenoid will vent the pressure from the front of the bolt at a constant rate, giving the bolt a cushion of air to stop it slamming against the bolt housing and being less harsh on paint. Installing a QEV will immediatly vent that cushion of air, making the bolt slam against the bolt housing and being a lot harsher on paint.

If an adjustable QEV was available for the ION (I.E vented the gas at a constant rate) then this would, in fact, be ideal. However there are no adjustable QEVs on the market at present for the ION (as far as I know)

So, in conclusion, if you want to install a QEV, then do so (Make sure your QEV has an 'O' ring on the mounting thread). It won't make your marker fire quicker nor will it be kind to paint and it will wear out your bolt quicker but you might end the day with 1500psi in your tank as opposed to 1000psi

Phew!

Constructive criticism welcomed. Please, if anyone has an opinion that differs from what I said let me know and prove how I'm wrong. Like I said above, CONSTRUCTIVE criticism please.

 

[Lovetone]

one good thing on the ion is the QEV spews the crap from your reg (ie dirty lube etc) into your frame rather than clogging it through your internals....or something like that

also allows lower dwell for greater efficiency maybe

 

[PaintballBudgie]

Garf, time to put in your two penneth.

 

[bulldog2k]

*champing at the bit to get started, Budgie *

A good, informative post - not entirely unbiased but on the whole factually accurate.

Ok - this whole 'does it make you shoot faster' thing. You are incorrect to say it does not - for many people, yes it does, but the 17bps thing is inaccurate because no one can shoot that fast. What a shorter bolt cycle time DOES allow is an earlier recognised trigger event, but not past the 17 bps cap (but seeing as no one can shoot that fast anyway, it CAN increase most people's ROF). There is no side-stepping this cap and that is all there is to that.

19-20 balls a second (obviously only attainable through assisted modes) do not come via an upgraded noid - the stock noid is more than capable of cycling without a QEV into the low 20's and with a QEV at about 25 cycles per second. The 17bps is purely a board cap.

The QEV mod in practice should (as you say) be harsher on brittle paint, but in an entire season I have not broken a ball on the face of my bolt with dwell set to 14.

I think you have to accordingly balance theory with practice.

The problem with paintballers is we all have an opinion but it is very rarely based on empirical testing. The QEV mod IS more efficient though I don't know by how much. At least another pod, but one of these days I will do a proper test...

The other major benefit is it stops the VAST majority of lube being cycled through the solenoid which makes it progressively less effective. The noid can, of course, be disassembled and cleaned.

This all comes at a price - which is the front bolt buffer. Again, in a season (inc fortnightly reball training), mine is getting trashed but has never needed to be replaced (or, indeed, turned around, which is the usual fiddle). But this is the ONLY downside - it does not wear detents any faster - it's just that most people are putting more shots through it - and there is CERTAINLY no evidence to suggest it wears your bolt in any worse use other than more use (ie; again, for most people, more shots). Oh - and, in fairness, invalidates your warranty, if you care about such things...

Accordingly, there remains a balance for Ion owners to weigh up. My personal belief is illustrated by the fact that though I know, understand and tech Ions more than most people, I continue to use one on my gat; to me, the trade-off still makes the QEV far more preferable than not. Several other players (notably Pinky - and Mike From Brum) completely disagree. At the end of the day, it's down to an individual to know the facts and take it from there...

 

[John C]

Originally posted by Mazz005

A solenoid will vent the pressure from the front of the bolt at a constant rate, giving the bolt a cushion of air to stop it slamming against the bolt housing and being less harsh on paint. Installing a QEV will immediatly vent that cushion of air, making the bolt slam against the bolt housing and being a lot harsher on paint.

Using the same logic you could say that putting QEVs on a cocker ram will make it tougher on paint, because the QEV vents the air still inside the ram, causing it to move faster!

That is one way of looking at it.
The other perspective is to say that with a QEV, at lower pressures you will acheive the same ROF (obviously with the ION being single regged you would need to increase the volume of the gas that fires the ball in order to get the same velocity, where as in a cocker where your LPR is adjustable and almost unlinked to the firing pressure so that wouldnt be the case).

That is the trade off you make in all markers, bolt speed vs rate of fire.

The faster the bolt moves the tougher it will be on paint and the faster the gun will go.




The real improvement to any marker would be to improve the recharge rate, which will let you squeeze more shots in per second without needing to chamber the paintballs with any more force.

Unfortunately on all smart pants guns, the recharge is terrible, so you are never going to get decent rates of fire without being hard on the paint.






Bulldog2k, your post about the ion board is very interesting. I never knew the Ion board was as simple as the board from the old angel LED (in terms of picking up trigger events).
That certainly means an aftermarket board would be a huge improvement...

 

[andyp1]

Originally posted by bulldog2k
*champing at the bit to get started, Budgie *

(but seeing as no one can shoot that fast anyway..............

what are you basing this on, because i think that that is a somewhat un-quantifiable statement

 

[bulldog2k]

Andyp1, based on several things. Forgive me if I attribute this to the wrong person but Magued/Joy (?) said only two people on their team could shoot at 15bps and they couldn't sustain it, and that when the PA decided on teh 15 cap on ramping, it was because they tested the fastest players they knew, and decided that almost no one could hit that anyway. Quantified as requested.

JohnC, I think there is no doubt an after-market board will be a large improvement (not necessarily the Blackheart though I will test with interest). The trigger-event search (on the stock board) is both (relatively) slow and inefficient, the eye logic is (relatively) slow and (a minor point but an annoying one) it continues to drain the battery whilst turned off

 

[John C]

It looks like they have left alot of room for improvement then.
The cynical amongst us might think they did it on purose

 

[bulldog2k]

John..!!!

*holds hands over eyes and clenches eyes shut*

I cannot hear Clayton! I cannot hear Clayton!!

*recovers*

Smart Parts would NEVER do that to me - they love me and look after me, and I am their friend



*******s

 

[andyp1]

Originally posted by John C
It looks like they have left alot of room for improvement then.
The cynical amongst us might think they did it on purose

maybe so, but as far as i know, smartparts arent making any upgrade boards for them, so it wont benifit them as such (or will it!? im sure their legal begals will ensure it will)