Huddersfield Police arrest 4 youth

[Skeet]

Posted By Me....yonks Ago:

Been there done that...
http://www.p8ntballer-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23061&page=2&highlight=certificate

Maybe if we made an effort to licence ourselves it might show willing. I hold both firearms and shotgun certificates,...so understand a bit about in's and outs.

If the UKPSF..was to set up a registration process...similar to the aplicaton of a firearm...ie: register your ownership or intent to own a Paintball marker, along with someone or two someone's to vouch for you, independently..maybe a reference from a site owner...
This of course would all be voluntary, but as and when people buy or sell markers, information could be updated..this might help reduce marker theft.
If most regular Paintballers had one..then they could produce it if asked at paintball stores...whereby it gives the store owner a check..if he has any doubts about the customer (ie doesnt know them)
Would also help with online purchases/deals..the vendor can ask for Name address and Register no...this could be checked via a UKPSF website, if it checks out great..if not the vendor then can make an informed decision..
I hope im not upsetting anyone, its not meant as a sinister thing, more a way of protecting ourselves and our sport...
After all...unless someone plays paintball regularily or is involved in the sport, they dont need a marker.
It wont make the sport more difficult to get into..as people dont go out to buy a marker, before they play paintball (or they shouldnt do!) so after a few trips to a site...the field owner could give a reference.
I would say that, i dont suppose the problems are caused by people buying Angels or Timmys, more the budget end of the market..
We dont really want people going out buying markers to use in their own back gardens (solely) as very few back gardens are large or isolated enough to play paintball in safely...so anyone who wants a marker for legitimate purposes would be fine as they generally are involved in the sport before they invest in it..

Gaz prepares to be flamed...but hopes he doesnt!

Quote:
Originally posted by Smudge
"HEAR,HEAR!!!!"



BUT: If a paintballer with his/her own marker was to hold a license for having the marker and using it for the sport......
wouldn't you still get people who own the marker not for the 'sporting use' making them self a 'fake' license

How would the U.K.P.S.F know whether or not he has bought the marker intending to use it for paintball tournies,rec~balling,etc...



Right well...First off they have to know what the "Certificate" (better than Licence) looks like before they can copy it...also, the vendor would be able to check Certificate details against the Proposed UKPSF website, in order to verify it..in this case say someone had copied another players licence somehow, or outright stolen it, the Vendor could check the register for Markers allready allocated to that Certificate (details of which would not be on the certificate) this can then be used to check if the person knows what they "all ready own" or in the case of the Certificates rightfull owner not having purchased any markers before it was stolen (therefore none registered) the vendor could ask who Their referees were or which site owner Recommended them (also not on the Certificate)
If someone wants to Forge any document it is possible, but for our purposes, it would be extreme.

Secondly...the person who has applied for the Certificate...will have been either Refereed by two fellow Paintballers (also Certificate holders) Or by the Proprietor of the site they frequently attend..
(if a punter wishes to take up the sport more seriously, to Walk On level, they could apply for an application...part of which they should hand to the site operator..who will then be able to monitor the Applicant's suitability and record number of visits..to which there would be a minimum amount before Certification could be granted..5 -10..dont know)
..So..the UKPSF will know that the Certificate holder has been vetted...There could be different uses featured on a Certificate eg:
ROBBO from Nexus (and paintball History, Present and future, Hi Pete!) would have something like "Professional Use" featured on his Certificate and Someone like myself would have "Amateur Use" and Joe Walkon would have "Recreational Use" on his...
This could also be another way of checking for fraud or theft...
If a "Professional Use" Certificate turns up at Planet to buy a £100 marker (assuming they dont Recognise the Player) eyebrows could be raised "Why does he/she want that?"

Like I said before..this is only my own...quickly created ideas, and is not intended to be Draconian in any way..just a means of protecting the Sport, The Players and of course people like the young lady mentioned.
The idea is, that someone without a Certificate could be refused, when trying to purchase a marker ( i say "could" because not being a legal document, it is upto the Vendors to decide..but I feel sure that the majority of "proper" paintball retailers would honour this.)
Any more comments..from you experienced peeps?
Gaz

 

[TheGurkha]

but if we issue UKPSF cards to 'Authorised Owners', or summin like that, would that mean Delta Force Would have to shut down? hmm...

 

[Warped_Impulse]

skeet ---> the problem with database ideas like this is the logistics of registering every privatley owned marker in the u.k. it relies on every single owner in the u.k. being honest and registering all the kit. the other snag is people getting their kit from sources outside the u.k (eg the internet). if a system of registration was introduced idealy it would need to be introduced on a world wide basis (not an easy task to accomplish), and would need to stretch to all retailers of kit. it would also make it impossible to track second hand sales, which means organising retailers to deal with third party sales,..

eg. i have a sovriegn, as i have recently upgraded to an impulse i decide to sell the sovriegn. i now have to locate a shop/retailer of paintball kit, the "third" party. the marker goes into his shop (taking up display space that could be used for the all new "hand cannon of doom sport edition" (tm).
now most retailers i can think of would rather use the display space for a premium marker rather than someones old cast off, which come be as tempramental as a great white shark with pmt. include my travel/postage to get the marker there, ensuring it arrives safely to said shop via post,..

 

[Skeet]

skeet ---> the problem with database ideas like this is the logistics of registering every privatley owned marker in the u.k. it relies on every single owner in the u.k. being honest and registering all the kit. the other snag is people getting their kit from sources outside the u.k (eg the internet). if a system of registration was introduced idealy it would need to be introduced on a world wide basis (not an easy task to accomplish), and would need to stretch to all retailers of kit. it would also make it impossible to track second hand sales, which means organising retailers to deal with third party sales,..

eg. i have a sovriegn, as i have recently upgraded to an impulse i decide to sell the sovriegn. i now have to locate a shop/retailer of paintball kit, the "third" party. the marker goes into his shop (taking up display space that could be used for the all new "hand cannon of doom sport edition" (tm).
now most retailers i can think of would rather use the display space for a premium marker rather than someones old cast off, which come be as tempramental as a great white shark with pmt. include my travel/postage to get the marker there, ensuring it arrives safely to said shop via post,..

From teh other thread:

How could we use a system like this for online shops?

Also how would you regulate second hand sales on the classified forums for example.

Steve...
As mentioned in the first post i did.
All "certificates" would be registered...the UKPSF or whatever body issues them...would have an Online website, where people can check the some details of another certificate holder, after ebtering their own Certificate number to gain access..this would enable s/h sales to be checked out before the Vendor sells the Marker....
Likewise.. an online store, would take the certificate number along with the other details and could also check the details...
If a Certificate is suspected stolen or Fraudulent..a simple call from the UKPSF to the "certificate" holder would clear up any falsifications " Are you trying to buy a marker?" "No..im in the bog!"

We are simply trying to protect our UK interests at teh moment.
So..if you were to buy a marker from teh US, you can just register it against your name with teh body looking after the process.

 

[Warped_Impulse]

i can see the theory behind it all, but it still relies on those people ordering from the european and stateside deelers being honest, and we all know in the deepest darkest regions at the back of ours heads that out there somewhere there are those who will abuse the system to supply to none registered people,.. unfortunatly human nature is one thing that can't be registered or controled,. and it's this factor that could end up driving paintball to an "underground" status due to the powers that be clamping down so tightly that it becomes impossible to enjoy the sport we love. the last thing we want or need is our sport being destroyed, or locked down so tightly that the u.k. ends up in a "dark ages" state where we are so far behind the rest of the world in regards to kit and general gameplay that we may aswell give up.

Waped_Impulse
Follow those Waped little impulses

 

[Lucky]

Just throwing a little question in here, and in no way at all intending to be "DEROGATORY" in any way shape or form !
Are any of the people involved in our sport full time employees of their organisations? apart from the shops and manufacturers of course.

How much are you the player willing to pay for this service?

Would for instance UKPSF certification be recognised by the home office?

Admittidly this could all be a voluntary scheme, but that would negate it's usefullness as people wouldn't have to subscribe to it, so therefore we would have to have it all legal for it to be of any use, and of course that's going to cost.

Now if it does involve a charge, isn't that going to put people off from buying markers and joining our sport?

 

[Warped_Impulse]

Now if it does involve a charge, isn't that going to put people off from buying markers and joining our sport?

it would add another hassle into the mix. ,arranging time off (for those of us that work weekends, when we would rather be balling), finding a site, arranging travel, team logistics for those of us on teams, ensuring the other half won't chew you out for spending all your time in the woods, buying the kit and then registering it,..

our sport is already viewed as an elitist sport,.. a view that we are slowly losing, but negative press articles and t.v Dramas (cough, cough byker grove,.. for those of us old enough to remember the ant and dec era) where people are injured don't do the sport any favours.

the u.k. paintball scene is growing, and we, as it's reprisentatives to the world need to prove that we as sporting comunity are nothing to do with miss use of equiptment, and the fact that it is being missued sickens us all.

i said it in an earlier post,.. if you see kids in the street acting irrisponsibly, go over and speak to them. Try to get them involved in the sport in a responsible way. arrange for them to come to your local site. bringing new players into the sport, increasing the site owners income which means the site owner can use the income to improve the sites fields and equiptment.

who nows one of these little oiks could be the allstar Pro player of tomorrow?
scary thought i know.

Warped Impulse
Waped Views for a warped world

 

[Skeet]

Lets get this into perspective.
My idea is simply to do a couple of things:

- Internal Registering of markers, by a governing body (using UKPSF as an example, not trying to put on them!) will show Government officials, that we are taking a responsible stance against the missuse of paintballing equipment.
Should something occur, and a marker is confiscated etc...if it is registered, teh UKPSF can either,

A) State that teh marker isn't registered with them, and therefore the offender isnt a member of the UK Tournament/Serious paintballing community.
B) State that it is registered to them, but that it was reported stolen on a certain date, which would then mean that potentially teh property could be returned to its rightfull owner and again prove that we dont have scrotes in out paintballing community (coz you can bet your bollox, that when apprehended the scrote is going to claim he uses it for paintballing and thats why he has it), and then he will also get done for handling stolen goods too.

- Will provide a means of ascertaining someones true identity and potential intentions, when selling a marker, either new from a Store, or classifide advert (here or anywhere).

And several other good features which I cant roll off just now as I have just woken up...tell me this..would it be a bad thing?

How hard would it be to do?

Well...roll out of initial Certificates, would be via a similar application process...my guess would be that these very forums are a good place to start...everyone on here knows someone who can vouch for them.
Non forumites, will know someone who is a forumite who can vouch for them.

As for cost, well...I can say how much that would cost..I know teh UKPSF is run by dedicated individuals, who give a great deal of time, only for the love of teh sport...membership is very cheap, so there is room in that for a slight raising of fees to accomodate teh cost of issuing certificates, setting up and running teh web based checking system etc...I for one would be prepared, more than happy to shell out to be regisitered....

The only potential downsides are...we would need to get the major UK companies involved...which I doubt they would mind, but yeah I can see the point of someone approaching you with £600 to buy a marker and your having to turn them away because they arent registered...but...as long as the registration process is avilable, easily (provided you can prove who you are etc) then whats teh problem...?

How many of us, but our stuff from "Bunker" type shops that sell air soft, camo...army surplus and spyder clones?
OK, we arent likely to stop them selling stuff to undesireables, but...by making sure WE cover our arse's, that can only be looked upon as a good thing by Joe Public.

"Further developments in the case against the 18 year old "Drive by Paintballer" from Scrotesville.
The UKPSF, the governing body of Paintball Sports, released a statement:

Working alongside the Scrotesville Constabularly, we are proud to say that the individual involved in this terrible incident, is not a member of the UK Paintballing Community, as he claimed to be.

The Marker used in this incident, was reported to us as stolen, in a Burgalary, several weeks ago by its registered owner and this and other information supplied by us, has helped convict this individual of Handling Stolen Goods and Burgalry.

The UK Tournament and Recreational Paintballing community, are disgusted by incidents like this and will be pleased to hear that this has come to a satisfying conclusion.

Mr Nostars, was convicted of Assault, Burgalry and Handling Stolen Goods in Scrotesville County Court, yesterday and was sentenced to 3 years in prison.
The stolen Marker (correct term for paintball gun), used in the incident, has been returned to it's rightfull owner, along with other items found at Mr Nostars home.
Inspector Gadget, who has been in charge of this case, thanked the UKPSF for their assistance.


Be nice to see wouldnt it?