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Codiak

GWC 2010 #23
Dec 2, 2004
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www.codiak.co.uk
I know dozens of recovered alcoholics and addicts who never would have made it if not for the housing benefits they got that paid their rent in the dry-houses they stayed in while in the tenuous early stages of their recovery. If they hadn't had that support they would have had to resort to hostels where drugs and alcohol would be in their faces the entire time. Addiction is an illness dude, and just because the symptoms are particularly ugly and damaging it doesn't mean it doesn't deserve to be treated. I do kinda agree with Robbo's idea of testing people though. To recover one needs to seek help like a drowning man grabs for a life preserver, and that is usually preceded by a truckload of problems and consequences that make you face up to your problem. Losing benefits if you use is certainly an incentive to seek help. And yeah, street crime only accounts for about £40,000 in damages per year, whereas white collar crime figures reach the millions. I think it has more to do with public perceptions, and fear of, crime that forms policies focussed on street crime. The gov. needs to stop reading the newspapers and do what's right, not what people want. Stupid people :rolleyes: :p

I understand the concept of recovery mate, think I worded it wrong, should have really went more along the lines of the ones who play the system, saying they will clean their act up all the while not bothering, help them, test them if they playing ball then fine keep it up, if not then maybe 3 strikes or something like that.
 

Robbo

Owner of this website
Jul 5, 2001
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..........................but I guess Cracker is offensive to people because of it's meaning...obviously it's meaning was reality, but nobody alive now ever took part in that reality, so maybe that's why they find it offensive?
I have no idea what 'cracker' refers to, I just thought it was slang with no real significance, please explain the relevance Kat.
 

Raffles

Going....going....not quite dead yet...
Jun 21, 2004
2,766
1
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oldham - lancs
I made up the All-Black game show...
Doesn't mean they don't exist!

Music of White Origin?
Sure, thats a concert everyone will want to go to. Micheal Flatley and some assorted marching bands, with a bit of classical and opera thrown in, topped of with some good old Country line-dancing (I think I'm going to be sick).

Mobo gets to keep Rock & Roll, Jazz, Soul, Funk, Hip-Hop, Blues, Motown, R&B, Rap, etc.

Sounds fair to me...
You missed the point. MOWO will/can never happen because of the outcry (regardless of the content).

I noticed you skirted around the NAACP (yet again!).

Time to wake up and smell the mocca ;).
 

Buddha 3

Hamfist McPunchalot
From Wikipedia:

"There are various theories concerning the origin of the term "cracker".

The term "cracker" was in use during Elizabethan times to describe braggarts. The original root of this is the Middle English word crack1 meaning "entertaining conversation" (one may be said to "crack" a joke); this term and the alternate spelling "craic" are still in use in Ireland and Scotland. It is documented in Shakespeare's King John (1595): "What cracker is this same that deafs our ears with this abundance of superfluous breath?"

By the 1760s, this term was in use by the English in the British North American colonies to refer to Scots-Irish settlers in the south. A letter to the Earl of Dartmouth reads: "I should explain to your Lordship what is meant by Crackers; a name they have got from being great boasters; they are a lawless set of rascalls on the frontiers of Virginia, Maryland, the Carolinas, and Georgia, who often change their places of abode". A similar usage was that of Charles Darwin in his introduction to The Origin of Species, to refer to "Virginia squatters" (illegal settlers). [1]

Spaniards in Florida called them “Quáqueros,” a corruption of the English word “Quaker,” which the Spanish used to contemptuously refer to any Protestant. [2]

Other possible origins of the term "cracker" are linked to early Florida cattle herders (Florida crackers) that traditionally used whips to herd wild Spanish cattle. These cowboys were distinct from the Spanish vaqueros of Florida. The crack of the herders' whips could be heard for great distances when they were used to round cattle in pens and to keep the cows on a given track. Also, "cracker" has historically been used to refer to those engaged in the low paying job of cracking pecans and other nuts in Georgia and throughout the southeast U.S.

According to the 1911 edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica, "cracker" is a term of contempt for the "poor" or "mean whites," particularly of Georgia and Florida. Britannica notes that the term dates back to the American Revolution, and is derived from the "cracked corn" which formed their staple food. [3] (Note that in British English "mean" is also a term for poverty, with no malice implied.)

Historically the word suggested poor, white rural Americans with little formal education. Historians point out the term originally referred to the strong Scots-Irish of the back country (as opposed to the English of the seacoast). Thus a sociologist reported in 1926: "As the plantations expanded these freed men (formerly bond servants) were pushed further and further back upon the more and more sterile soil. They became 'pinelanders', 'corn-crackers', or 'crackers'." [Kephard Highlanders]


[edit] Folk etymology
There is also an apocryphal belief that the term dates back to slavery in the antebellum South. The popular folk etymology is based on slaver foremen using bullwhips to discipline African and African American slaves, and the sound of the whip being described as 'cracking the whip'. The foremen who cracked these whips are believed to have been known as 'crackers'."






I've had some discussions here in Holland with some folks from Suriname, one of out former colonies (and yours). Black people in Suriname (from slave ancestry) often refer to white people as "bakra", without thinking about what the word means. I tell them not to do it, as by using that slang word, they are in fact degrading themselves.
Bakra is short in Sranang Tongo (commonly known as Surinamese) for "basi van mi kra", which in turn is Surinamese for "boss of my soul". That's how they viewed the slavemasters. Clearly, by refering to somebody as the boss of your soul, you are putting yourself in a very, VERY low position...

Each one, teach one and all that...
 

MissyQ

New Member
Jan 9, 2006
663
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Doesn't mean they don't exist!



You missed the point. MOWO will/can never happen because of the outcry (regardless of the content).

I noticed you skirted around the NAACP (yet again!).

Time to wake up and smell the mocca ;).
No, YOU missed the point my friend, MOWO is a terrible idea BECAUSE of the content. It could never reach the outcry stage, and I doubt black people would even notice it was on. TV Networks have to make money too, and airing the MOWO awards would not be the way to do it.

Anyway, Flatly already has a show, he's hosting the 'Superstars of Dance Finals' competition, which includes entries from Africa, Ireland, USA, Australia, India, Brazil and China.
The US are in the lead, thanks to their amazing Hip-Hop and B-boy dancers.
The UK didn't make the finals, although their 'knees-up Mother Brown' rendition was given a 9 by China.

ps. China give everyone a 9.
 

Buddha 3

Hamfist McPunchalot
Doesn't mean they don't exist!



You missed the point. MOWO will/can never happen because of the outcry (regardless of the content).

I noticed you skirted around the NAACP (yet again!).

Time to wake up and smell the mocca ;).
Actually, they (what do you mean, they!??!! ;) ) are selling themselves short with the MOBO's. The awards represent all kinds of music heaped together, whereas "cracker-music" has a reward for pretty much every type of music that exists. Country music awards, Western music awards (what's the difference between those anyway?), and so on...

The MOBO's aren't as racist as they appear to be. While it deals with music that was originated by black people (no argument there), they do also give awards to white people that mean something within the music concerned.



PS Re Obama being sold to the world as being black, rather than multiracial, don't forget that the US at one point had the "one drop" law.
At a time when the US was still strictly segregated, it was said that even if you had one drop of black in you, you were considered black. Though this law no longer exists, it's spirit still lingers strongly, particularly if somebody looks black. For instance, my daughter is just as black as Obama is, only with a white father and a black mother, rather than vice versa, she looks white. She has blond hair and green eyes (though she is more curvy than most white girls her age and has what some would call a black nose). But according to that law, she'd be black too.
 

Kat

I'm a love Albatross.
Aug 18, 2006
1,048
0
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35
Carlisle/ Leeds
From Wikipedia:

"There are various theories concerning the origin of the term "cracker".

The term "cracker" was in use during Elizabethan times to describe braggarts. The original root of this is the Middle English word crack1 meaning "entertaining conversation" (one may be said to "crack" a joke); this term and the alternate spelling "craic" are still in use in Ireland and Scotland. It is documented in Shakespeare's King John (1595): "What cracker is this same that deafs our ears with this abundance of superfluous breath?"

By the 1760s, this term was in use by the English in the British North American colonies to refer to Scots-Irish settlers in the south. A letter to the Earl of Dartmouth reads: "I should explain to your Lordship what is meant by Crackers; a name they have got from being great boasters; they are a lawless set of rascalls on the frontiers of Virginia, Maryland, the Carolinas, and Georgia, who often change their places of abode". A similar usage was that of Charles Darwin in his introduction to The Origin of Species, to refer to "Virginia squatters" (illegal settlers). [1]

Spaniards in Florida called them “Quáqueros,” a corruption of the English word “Quaker,” which the Spanish used to contemptuously refer to any Protestant. [2]

Other possible origins of the term "cracker" are linked to early Florida cattle herders (Florida crackers) that traditionally used whips to herd wild Spanish cattle. These cowboys were distinct from the Spanish vaqueros of Florida. The crack of the herders' whips could be heard for great distances when they were used to round cattle in pens and to keep the cows on a given track. Also, "cracker" has historically been used to refer to those engaged in the low paying job of cracking pecans and other nuts in Georgia and throughout the southeast U.S.

According to the 1911 edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica, "cracker" is a term of contempt for the "poor" or "mean whites," particularly of Georgia and Florida. Britannica notes that the term dates back to the American Revolution, and is derived from the "cracked corn" which formed their staple food. [3] (Note that in British English "mean" is also a term for poverty, with no malice implied.)

Historically the word suggested poor, white rural Americans with little formal education. Historians point out the term originally referred to the strong Scots-Irish of the back country (as opposed to the English of the seacoast). Thus a sociologist reported in 1926: "As the plantations expanded these freed men (formerly bond servants) were pushed further and further back upon the more and more sterile soil. They became 'pinelanders', 'corn-crackers', or 'crackers'." [Kephard Highlanders]


[edit] Folk etymology
There is also an apocryphal belief that the term dates back to slavery in the antebellum South. The popular folk etymology is based on slaver foremen using bullwhips to discipline African and African American slaves, and the sound of the whip being described as 'cracking the whip'. The foremen who cracked these whips are believed to have been known as 'crackers'."






I've had some discussions here in Holland with some folks from Suriname, one of out former colonies (and yours). Black people in Suriname (from slave ancestry) often refer to white people as "bakra", without thinking about what the word means. I tell them not to do it, as by using that slang word, they are in fact degrading themselves.
Bakra is short in Sranang Tongo (commonly known as Surinamese) for "basi van mi kra", which in turn is Surinamese for "boss of my soul". That's how they viewed the slavemasters. Clearly, by refering to somebody as the boss of your soul, you are putting yourself in a very, VERY low position...

Each one, teach one and all that...
That's a much better explanation than I'd of given! But yeah, as far as I know it (and the way that I translate it if I hear it) is basically 'whip cracker', should other people take it that way, I can see why people would be insulted about being 'blamed' (in an indirect way) about something they never took part in.

I will admitt...I wasn't aware of an other translations except for the mean whites one. Interesting.

Katxx
 

Raffles

Going....going....not quite dead yet...
Jun 21, 2004
2,766
1
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57
oldham - lancs
I know the MOBO's don't discriminate between black and white as far as the awards go - it's the name of the awards that gets me.

Why not just call it the Music Awards - or 'Street Music Awards' - or anything that doesn't feel the need to add Black in to the title (perhaps only added by the PR people to try and give them some street cred)? My point (as missed by Missy) was that there could never be the word White in the title - as that is considered racist - but it's fine to add Black or Asian or Female etc. etc.

To everyone - consider the following:
The following list of people all go to the same job interview. They all are equally capable and qualified to do the job...
  • A 'black' man
  • A disabled man
  • A woman
  • A gay man
  • A white working class male
Now if the same individuals are not given the job...
  • A 'black' man - racist
  • A disabled man - disablist
  • A woman - sexist
  • A gay man - homophobic
  • A white working class male - tough sheet!

See the problem now?
 

MissyQ

New Member
Jan 9, 2006
663
0
0
Harlem, NY
Visit site
I know the MOBO's don't discriminate between black and white as far as the awards go - it's the name of the awards that gets me.

Why not just call it the Music Awards - or 'Street Music Awards' - or anything that doesn't feel the need to add Black in to the title (perhaps only added by the PR people to try and give them some street cred)? My point (as missed by Missy) was that there could never be the word White in the title - as that is considered racist - but it's fine to add Black or Asian or Female etc. etc.

To everyone - consider the following:
The following list of people all go to the same job interview. They all are equally capable and qualified to do the job...
  • A 'black' man
  • A disabled man
  • A woman
  • A gay man
  • A white working class male
Now if the same individuals are not given the job...
  • A 'black' man - racist
  • A disabled man - disablist
  • A woman - sexist
  • A gay man - homophobic
  • A white working class male - tough sheet!

See the problem now?
Yes, but you don't, as this situation depends on the person conducting the interview. If a disabled gay Black woman is doing the hiring, your argument falls flat on its face. It is too subjective.