HALO Battereis ARGH!!!!!

[NulodPBall]

Originally posted by QuackingPlums
Well, maybe several bags of chips and couple of saveloys...

The HALO takes 6x1.5v AA batteries, right? So that's 9V? Surely a PP3 9V battery would be smaller and lighter than 6x AA cells?

Why did Odyssey choose to go with AA sized batteries?

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The 9v doesn't have very much staying power (amperage) compared to the AA's. I seem to get varying data on the output from 9v's but it seems that you'll need more 9v's than can fit in the battery compartment (hooked up in parallel) to get the equivalent "life" of the six AA batteries. Translation: your hopper will run out of juice in the middle of your game if you use only one 9v, and your cone will run slower, faster.
You have to be careful when using rechargeable AA's 'cause most rechargeables put out only about 1.2v and most alkaline batteries put out 1.5v. I'd recommend rechargables that are 1800 mA-h or higher, if you can find some that put out a full 1.5v. I was a little upset after buying a few rechargable 9v batteries that they only put out 7.2 v, or 8.4v. That explained why my Rev. ran slower with them in. I did manage to find some 9.4+ volt batteries, and I believe Java (Kingman) actually sells some good 9v rechargables and chargers. Of course, now that I was stupid enough to put in a better trigger on my gun, and I've invested a few dollars in a couple of sets of rechargeable 9 volts and chargers, I now need to upgrade to a Halo... darn that stupid fast trigger

Ray
Relic

 

[QuackingPlums]

Hmmm, rechargeables may have a lower nominal voltage output at zero load, but are affected less by high drain than alkalines, and if you plot the discharge characteristics of a rechargeable against an alkaline, you'll see that rechargeables drop to about 90% of their rated output after a short space of time, but then remain at that level until they're just about to run out.

Alkalines on the other hand, will steadily reduce throughout their entire lifespan, so other than a higher initial output, they're actually worse than rechargeables for "high drain" applications.

The Duracell M3 technology (other battery manufacturers call it different things) is slightly better, but is still subject to the same physical properties (all due to internal resistance and stuff due to the different metals/electrolytes used within).

12v Revvys are regulated down to 12v anyway, so whether you're running 18v or 16.8v through them, the regulator *should* put 12v through the circuitry...

Bring back toxic NiCads, that what I say - environmentally unfriendly, stupid "memory" effects, but unbeatable for high-drain applications!

 

[NulodPBall]

What you say is true for some rechargables but you're ignoring the fact that the question is related to AA's and 6 AA's in series at 1.2v per AA gives, what, 7.2 v total instead of the needed 9v total put out by the non-rechargeables, so if the AA's drop down to 90% of their rated value fairly quickly then that means that they drop down to 6.48v right away and stay there, instead of the 9 volts which goes down gradually (alkaline AA's).

You might note that my caution for the 9v rechargeables is more related to their rated values. I'm quite happy with my 9.4 volt rechargeables (they actually go up to 10v after recharging). I figure I have backups, which I rotate, and I recharge after every day of use so I always start the day with fresh batteries, no guessing for me.
As far as my Rev being regulated, I definitely know when I'm using the lower voltage rechargeables. My paddle turns slower and doesn't keep up with my gun.

Ray
Relic
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Originally posted by QuackingPlums
Hmmm, rechargeables may have a lower nominal voltage output at zero load, but are affected less by high drain than alkalines, and if you plot the discharge characteristics of a rechargeable against an alkaline, you'll see that rechargeables drop to about 90% of their rated output after a short space of time, but then remain at that level until they're just about to run out.

Alkalines on the other hand, will steadily reduce throughout their entire lifespan, so other than a higher initial output, they're actually worse than rechargeables for "high drain" applications.

The Duracell M3 technology (other battery manufacturers call it different things) is slightly better, but is still subject to the same physical properties (all due to internal resistance and stuff due to the different metals/electrolytes used within).

12v Revvys are regulated down to 12v anyway, so whether you're running 18v or 16.8v through them, the regulator *should* put 12v through the circuitry...

Bring back toxic NiCads, that what I say - environmentally unfriendly, stupid "memory" effects, but unbeatable for high-drain applications!

 

[QuackingPlums]

Actually if you measure the terminal voltage across equivalent Alkalines and NiCads then you'll notice that after about 3 mins (or less, in some cases) the alkalines will be at a lower voltage than the NiCads... the discharge curve is steady, but it's a LOT steaper...

I wish I could draw in ascii.... mebbe I'll dig out some old battery plots and post them later (ok, I'm a battery geek)

And I was suggesting really that two 9v PP3s would weigh about the same or less than 6 AAs,have a higher nominal voltage but have much less "staying power" - which ultimately, won't really matter if you're using them for one game only

 

[NulodPBall]

Originally posted by QuackingPlums
Actually if you measure the terminal voltage across equivalent Alkalines and NiCads then you'll notice that after about 3 mins (or less, in some cases) the alkalines will be at a lower voltage than the NiCads... the discharge curve is steady, but it's a LOT steaper...

I wish I could draw in ascii.... mebbe I'll dig out some old battery plots and post them later (ok, I'm a battery geek)

And I was suggesting really that two 9v PP3s would weigh about the same or less than 6 AAs,have a higher nominal voltage but have much less "staying power" - which ultimately, won't really matter if you're using them for one game only

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Well, I certainly hope I play more than one game in the day

I had actually thought about whether I could fit 5 of the 9v's into that battery compartment, all hooked up in parallel, with a little bit of foam if needed. But then the weight factor starts kicking in... Hmmm.... if there wasn't that screw in the door it might be doable to change the battery after every game and use a car charger on the unused ones... but most cars now-a-days seem to need the key to keep the cigarette lighter powered up.... Hmmm...


Ray
Relic

 

[QuackingPlums]

Yeah, u hit the nail on the head there... PP3s have a shockingly low capacity (150mah) compared to AAs (up to 900mah) so you'd need up to 6 in parallel to reach the same capacity, which puts u back where u started. The only way to lighten the load would be to use fewer, and accept the reduced longevity.

It's a shame that LiIon gel packs have such poor performance in this type of application, cos the capacities of those are way higher!

 

[NulodPBall]

Originally posted by QuackingPlums
Yeah, u hit the nail on the head there... PP3s have a shockingly low capacity (150mah) compared to AAs (up to 900mah) so you'd need up to 6 in parallel to reach the same capacity, which puts u back where u started. The only way to lighten the load would be to use fewer, and accept the reduced longevity.

It's a shame that LiIon gel packs have such poor performance in this type of application, cos the capacities of those are way higher!

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One of the battery company websites sells some NiMH AA's at 2000 mA-h, and quite a few have 1800 mA's FYI. I actually saw one listing a NiMH 9v as having a 1200 mA-h capacity but I just ignored that one 'cause all the other 9v listings were significantly lower (LOL) and the battery description didn't tout the larger (huge?) capacity.
Maybe we could just install one 9v NiMH and then attach a generator to our feet so when we hit the 50, we're good for another 30 minutes? Oh, I just thought of the backmen, who'd need the juice the most... they'd have to march in place, to the tune of "Ride of the Valkyries" as they shoot off the Break Ahhh, I love the smell of paintball in the morning...it smells like...victory (sorry, couldn't help the movie reference...sorry if I'm mis-typing, my legs are getting tired and my ears hurt).

Ray "Now, DANCE!" N.
Relic

 

[QuackingPlums]

Yeah, I was talking about NiCads still - I'm so Old Skool!

You want movie references? We can generate the 1.2 Gigawatts needed by the Halo/Flux Capacitor by running a lightning conductor off the local town hall and stick conductor rails to our backs....

 

[Philip]

Got to my modification thread and look up the 12v warpfeed mod, now change the vdc regulator to a 9v+vdc reg. Cram the batterys in(2 X M3'S would rock) and the current should be high enough with all the buffer you have.

 

[PaintBaller630]

HA! Posers, my new eVLution2 hasnt run down its first set of batteries yet and ive played at least 20 games shooting full-auto