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Gun cheats--Yes or No?

Baca Loco

Ex-Fun Police
Situation: electros apparently have "programmed" velocity jump when fired in excess of 5-6 bps.

OK, here's my question. Who's buying this explanation? And, conversely, what else might be going on IF indeed the markers in question exhibited elevated velocities. Lastly, how could you "prove" it?


From SmackTalk on the subject of gun cheats and Timmys in particular:

"We use 3 different machinists for fabricating Intimidator front end assemblies. LPR spiking issues were due to the incompatibility between parts of these 3 suppliers. Orings have been the easy and cost effective solution for the majority, but at times a LPR or housing swap is required. Since the inception of the single reg assembly, no Ironmen or Assassin Team gun has ever spiked, never at any event, practice or day of rec ball play.
I can only speak for the Assassins and not for the Effect team. Miami has their own tech support that is separate from me and Bob's crew.
Hate to disappoint the misinformed conspiracy enthusiasts but we don't have the so called "cheater" boards and I'm sure neither does Miami.
I participated in every Assassin match at Pomona and we never had a hot shot issue. We did come home with a few holes in our jersey's and pods courtesy of the events opposition. No! We did not play Miami Effect this event either.
Notice that the Intimidator does not have a knob to adjust either reg and to effect change a hex wrench is required. Notice that the Matrix LPRs, Impy LPRs and Max-Flow in-lines have knobs that allow for easy field adjustments. NO accusations, just observations.
Even if we had a cheater board that had a ramping dwell program, it would be pretty obvious and quite noticeable, the sound of the marker firing would dramatically change and the rof would be significantly slower.
Increased dwell times = increased cycle times.
Our Intimidators sing but only one note and not whole tune.

Want an explanation, here it is. They had their regs turned up too high, they shot a fat ball, and/or the ambient temperature and barometric pressure increased through out the afternoon. Either one or a combination of these factors is what happened which resulted in the hot shots.

Face it, Losers will look for excuses for their shortcomings and blame others for their losses.

I welcome any League scrutineer or Pro Ref to test any of our Team guns at any event."

__________________
Terry59
Bob Long Adrenalin Sports Technology Factory Touring Tech
 

Baca Loco

Ex-Fun Police
Here's another post from Smack on the same subject---

_________________________________
This is in reference to cheating guns etc...

"Bob can't make cheater boards, and I won't. I am the only person that knows how to access the encrypted data.

It is my experience also that unless you really increased the dwell (10ms or more), there is no way to make a 30-40fps change in the velocity, and doing so would significantly decrease your rate of fire.

It certainly is possible that the regs are causing this type of problem, however, let me point out again that I was there at this event and I never once saw any type of problem that has been presented here. If this problem did exist, I would have been right on it to figure out what was going on. A 30-40fps increase is a significant increase, and would take some real work to make happen. The current hand-held radar chronos require a 1.5 second calibration period between shots, so there is no way that these could have been used to check velocity over multiple shots. Quickly placing the chrono under the barrel while someone is firing WILL NOT read the speed correctly (consult the manufacturer for more information concerning this matter).

Of course, I welcome anyone, at anytime to fully examine the solenoid output to determine for themselves if there is some electronic trick going on. I even offered the source code for examination to the NPPL rules committee if it should ever become an issue."

__________________
Jim Drew, President -
Wicked Air Sportz
 

Beaker

Hello again
Jul 9, 2001
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The bottom line is you can't get the velocity jumps people are accusing Miami of (up to 370 odd FPS) without playing with air pressures.

The only thing that the board can control is the speed of the ram and the dwell, it can't magically increase air pressures unless the guns have been modified waaaaaay past stock.

I have tried on mine and the biggest jump I could get using different Dwells is about 20fps.

That cannot be the explaination if the the 80fps jump is true.

Personally I find it much much easier to think that Miami weren't actually shooting 370 (for various reasons, not least the chrono issue) than I can believe they have a board which allows then too.
 

Cube

M2Q'd eblade or the LV1...decisions, decisions
May 4, 2002
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Warrington
Originally posted by Baca Loco
I am the only person that knows how to access the encrypted data.
Whilst I have no doubt that is the intention, if people can get into multi-million dollar computer systems, hack the CIA's website and all the other naughty things they get up to I'm pretty sure accessing encrypted data on a circuit board wouldn't be that hard.

Whether they'd want to is another matter.

Philip, get your geek ass over here and tell me how wrong I am!
 

ABBA

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May 28, 2002
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just a thought!!

If you've got an angel air couldnt you chip that to increase the output pressure as flow rate increased!?!?!?!?!?
:eek: :eek: :eek:
 

NulodPBall

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Dec 26, 2002
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I think the only way to "spike" the velocity significantly would be to play with the input pressure going to the main valve. And I believe that'd be more of an equipment failure than a planned velocity increase.

I just posted on another thread about the fact that I had to disable my inline reg once, and depend on my tank reg to provide velocity control. I was new to guns running at pressures under 200 psi, and as my tank emptied out, it's output pressure went up about 100 psi, causing a major penalty as I chrono'd off at about 340 fps, even though I chrono'd on at about 260 fps.

If someone had their regulators somehow setup to increase their output pressure as their flow rate increases, you could increase the chrono for long strings. It'd require a good machinist & designer to do it mechanically (maybe have the reg pin fat, and cone shaped so that under? Or have the spring pack pressure tied to the output pressure but with a slight delay so it doesn't kick in for single shots?). Easier if the reg valve was electronically controlled, but that's a whole other ball of wax.

Just my thoughts.


Ray
Relic