Grey import mass orders

[Raffles]

I think most of you are missing the point. Look up there ^^^^ (top right) - see that banner - that had to be paid for. The companies that pay money to have that up there (so we can have this bit down here) must have a say in how the forum is run (they do pay for it after all).

Now look up there ^^^^^ (top left). That stands for Paintball Games International. That's the magazine that has to have advertisers in it. Again, these adverts have to be paid for.

Now, if I suddenly decide to sell 100 pairs of Dye I3's at cost (becasue I have no overheads), then I am under-cutting those advertisers. They will, understandably, be very pissed off about this - because that's 100 pairs they are not selling. Which means 100 x small profit not going to them - but to me. And how much did I pay for the privilege? Nothing - as it is free to advertise your 'bits' on here.

If p8ntballer alllows this to go on - then it's sponsors will soon realise that there is no point in advertising up there anymore (or in the magazine) if the sales don't come in (because people are now buying from me). This results in no forum/magazine advertisers (the real bill payers) - so no forum and magazine.

Viscious circle I'm afraid. So I don't think it's about supporting your country - it's about supporting our supporters!

Oh, and if you are after something from the states, try asking people like LiPS (who did the Kila one as a 'service'), Just, Planet, EXL, HPG, Fat Bob's, etc. etc. You never know, you may just end up getting a little in return .

*2p*

 

[modd1uk]

I think most of you are missing the point. Look up there ^^^^ (top right) - see that banner - that had to be paid for. The companies that pay money to have that up there (so we can have this bit down here) must have a say in how the forum is run (they do pay for it after all).

Now look up there ^^^^^ (top left). That stands for Paintball Games International. That's the magazine that has to have advertisers in it. Again, these adverts have to be paid for.

Now, if I suddenly decide to sell 100 pairs of Dye I3's at cost (becasue I have no overheads), then I am under-cutting those advertisers. They will, understandably, be very pissed off about this - because that's 100 pairs they are not selling. Which means 100 x small profit not going to them - but to me. And how much did I pay for the privilege? Nothing - as it is free to advertise your 'bits' on here.

If p8ntballer alllows this to go on - then it's sponsors will soon realise that there is no point in advertising up there anymore (or in the magazine) if the sales don't come in (because people are now buying from me). This results in no forum/magazine advertisers (the real bill payers) - so no forum and magazine.

Viscious circle I'm afraid. So I don't think it's about supporting your country - it's about supporting our supporters!

Oh, and if you are after something from the states, try asking people like LiPS (who did the Kila one as a 'service'), Just, Planet, EXL, HPG, Fat Bob's, etc. etc. You never know, you may just end up getting a little in return .

*2p*

+1 - Nobody wants the forum to go as its a great place to buy/sell used gear. Lets abide by the rules n have a massive orgy.

 

[Rider]

*2p*

and well spent i'd say.

i guess i have to agree, if the use of the forum for grey imports is the issue, then it will need to be stopped. then again, if we look further, we could consider anyone selling anything BNIB that has not come from a store in the UK, but is not necessarily a grey import, bad for business too. as it goes it may still be cheaper to buy stuff in, duty paid, vat paid, shipping paid, and for some goods still sell them on, undercutting some of the aforementioned shops, making a profit for the seller and not a UK shop.

where does one draw a line? should it just be grey imports that are targetted then? admittedly anyone importing and acting as a reseller should have themselves tax registered as a sole-trader (at least) or when the IR man catches up you is in one deep pile of doodoo....

 

[modd1uk]

take it to eclipse, just, etc etc. I mean if your after a bulk buy then tell them you are after buying in bulk ( so every1 can get it a little cheaper ) whats the lowest price you can do? At the end of the day they can only say no..

 

[ION_CRAZY]

how would you like it if we started bringing in mexicans to do your job for less money you would be annoyed if it put u out of a job now wouldnt u!!!!

to be fair, there are so many eastern europeans in the UK, its pretty much impossible to get a job in the service industry, go to canary worf and see what kind of people work in the restuarants there, they have our jobs already, and they work for much less pay, these days 1% of those who work in the city of London recieve 1.5 billion in bonuses, so when you consider that, maybe cut some people some slack and let them order from the states and save some money. its not like everyone does it.

Lucky actually is one of the only UK retailers that offers good prices, if only others would follow there example.


Isnt it about people playing paintball as much as they can, without having to worry about whether they are damaging the economy, cheap products = more money = more playing. Anyone who says that someone doesnt have the right to import products from another country are out of order, paintball is about going out there with a gun and playing your heart out, dont critise people for trying to save money because maybe they want to acutally use the products they buy rather than have a great gun and gear, but not be able to play.

It all comes down to the love of the game. If you cut off people from selling imports people save more and dont play, so lets ask the question.

Which is more damagin to the UK paintball industry, a few grey orders off one paintball forum, or paintball players not playing because they have to pay more for paintball products and cant afford to play?

 

[speedbird_666]

Which is more damagin to the UK paintball industry, a few grey orders off one paintball forum, or paintball players not playing because they have to pay more for paintball products and cant afford to play?

Similar sentiment here.

The cost of pretty much everything here is so expensive, if ordering something from the states instead means I save enough cash to buy an extra case of paint to train with, why would I be inclined to want to keep my cash in the UK?

I understand the rule enforcement on here, that's really not an issue for me, but there is a lot of talk about 'supporting your economy' which seems to be targeted at people who are honest and say 'hey, i want to save some cash and buy from abroad'.

Obviously there are alot of people with a sizeable disposable income that would most likely dwarf mine, and kudos to them if they want to spend more for the same product domestically, but i'm always gonna look for the best deal, UK or not.

It's kinda funny that a company representative is posting in here to buy product locally (even if at silly cost), when said person would most likely get a significant discount (and pay alot less) from the company they represent....strikes me as slightly hypocritical in this case.

But that's just me.

 

[Beaker]

1) this isn't just AJ, don't tar him. He's a good guy but there's been a lot of this going on and while I've closed his Hate Heater thread, there will be more coming.

2) Mikey, sorry but that's unbelieveably simplistic, and just plain wrong. If you don't 'happen' to put £400 of turnover through a shop for pads, then someone else just happens to not put £800 of bottles through, then another front room trader does £250 of Ion parts, £90 for a jersey and pants etc etc - what's left? It's a drip drip drip off a stores turnover, you then have a problem with you gun or want something nice and simple and hey, guess what, the shop isn't there anymore, or they have to spread their set costs like rates and salaries over fewer and fewer sales, hence upping their prices, dissuading new players further and the cycle repeats. I had heard you worked in retail...

3) This isn't a mass cull of any and every BNIB item, it's the (few but increasing) guys that are consistantly doing it as a sideline. They aren't being banned, they aren't being ignored, they are being asked that while they might make some money, the guys paying for those banners have the biggest say in the site.

4) Lets us a very simple example. Take a saturday market. The traders pay for their pitch every week and the set up costs of a stall, clean up etc etc. They'd be pretty pi$$ed if a guy rolled up in a white transit, set up on the kerb with a couple of pasting tables and sold stuff out the back. He doesn't have any costs, he doesn't pay the same as the guys supporting the market, yet he gets the same access to their customers? It's a no brainer and why the police would move him on.

Here's it's no different. If there's something that you can't get at the stalls in the market then ask them to get it in for you, I can't see LIPS, Sloth, Just or anyone turning down a 10 people who want them to get a new companies doohicky in - would they?

We're not trying to be ogres about it, but there's simple economics and principles involved and the handful of guys that it restricts know what they're doing and why we have to act.

 

[TheRenton]

sorry if it has been mentioned but does this apply to custom stuff (grips, hoppers) that can't be done over here?

 

[VagabondStarJXF]

This is a long one so feel free to skip it if you don't want to read it Also sorry if I'm repeating anyone.

I agree that this rule is good. I also agree that it's the UK prices that make this rule very difficult to enforce.

What's happening with UK Paintball products today is similar to what happened with (and is still happening with) the video game industry. We're simply not big enough in the international market for paintball companies (most of which are from the US) to consider offering UK traders a decent deal. This is partly due to bulk order levels on all US exports. It's consistently low because of 2 things, the demand in the UK is low and the import tax that businesses are charged have to be passed on to the consumer. On top of that the MSRP is often a number that is adhered to regardless of the currancy. I've often found that the MSRP for something in the US is the same in the UK but with the currency changed (e.g. $399.99 becomes £399.99). When you consider the three factors of importing items for official dealers (bulk trade price, exchange rates and business import fees) you'd be right to be concerned as a consumer. However, most UK importers are not official licenced dealers and are more likely to pay a higher trade price and, therefore, higher import taxes. This still doesn't fully explain the prices we pay in the UK. A couple of years ago I'd imported some PB stuff for myself and a few others. We'd bought everything at the full US MSRP (Because we were new to the sport and kinda overexcited about buying PB stuff!), waited about 3-4 weeks for everything to arrive and paid a hefty import tax and handling charge. I calculated how much we saved and it was still a good saving. I know that UK businesses shouldn't be buying items like this (that's why trade prices exist) so, as a consumer in the international market, it's a little hard to appreciate the hefty mark up that exists in the UK. Admittedly I haven't imported like this since and probably won't be importing like this in the future now that prices are more balanced. Because prices are better now than they've ever been I concur that the need for the 'illegal' grey import trader (the 'I bought 100 of these in the US to sell on this forum' guys) is no longer necessary. Sure it's nice to save a couple of quid but most of these guys are people who have successfully bypassed the import tax system and are ripping us (and the UK busness marketplace) off more than they're saving us money.

I'm glad there's a crack down on them... but until prices are lower in the UK I'm sure that there will always be enough business for these guys to keep trading.

 

[Raffles]

I don't think the Beakster was talking about your 'one-off' direct dealings with 'other' countries.

If you want a couple of grips from Stinger (for example) - then the only way to get them is to deal with Stinger or a middle-man for bulk-buy discount (AJ in this case).

I think it's more a case of stopping the people who import stuff in bulk - then try to sell on through here. Of course, there is nothing stopping them doing it on-field or MSN etc.

Another analolgy to think about is if I turn up at the UKM in my van, selling Hate Heaters (seeing as though they've already been mentioned) out of the back. Imagine how the stalls that have paid to be there are going to feel. Just think "Only Fools & Horses".

Or, to put it in 'player' terms. You pay your full entry to an event - but then my team turn up and are allowed to play for free .