the question to ask is, how bad is it in relation to other 'rich mans' sports/toys/equipment. it is a big loss i agree but you must get the bigger picture
Going Down?
- Thread starter Robbo
- Start date
The killer is, since we don't provide an essential service that's tied in with bigger industries (like builders do, for instance), I reckon we're gonna experience a much slower pick-up rate since people will be busy trying to clear the wreckage of their crushed lives to start afresh, scattering the bones of their recently eaten dogs, buying real cereal to replace the bowls of cardboard they were eating. Paintball will be far from their minds. So I gotta agree with Senor el Robinski, we've got to wait longer than next year before things really start picking up for us. On the other hand, however, we're doing relatively okay over here, so if we can survive (or even grow) long enough for the US paintball industry to pick up we might escape the whiplash that it's recession has in store for us over 'ere. I'm just theorizing though, none of this is based on educated opinions or anything. meow!
I've been around the block a couple of times, and this is actually my 3rd economic slowdown in Paintball so far (in 22yrs). The worst until now was during GW1, and this one is a bit more worrying than that. However, I can give you a rough outline of what will go down.
Fields will continue to prosper - although people say that the recreational activities are the first to suffer, I have found this not to be the case.
Stores will suffer - While people will continue to play at fields, they will not be buying much equipment. The higher-end the gun, the more its sales will be hit.
The only thing that can help the stores is a shift in the industry, which requires work from the manufacturers. EG - The Dye Rotor is a killer loader, and people are dropping the Halo's and VL's to pick one up. This is known as a 'shift', and it stimulates sales worldwide. Ideally a new (or existing) marker manufacturer will come out with something tremendous, and then sponsor Dynasty or another top 3 team, and decide to market their product. Hopefully the new gun needs a new type of tank, and so on. People will not just buy a new Ego every year. The Industry needs a shift again to that everyone gets to make money through re-equipping the end user with something new.
Remember that if a company goes bust in a slowdown, thats not necessarily a bad thing, in fact it can be very positive. Smart companies actually expand during a slow-down, and these are the companies to buy stock in if you have any spare cash, which you don't, because you're in the middle of an economic slowdown.......
Fields will continue to prosper - although people say that the recreational activities are the first to suffer, I have found this not to be the case.
Stores will suffer - While people will continue to play at fields, they will not be buying much equipment. The higher-end the gun, the more its sales will be hit.
The only thing that can help the stores is a shift in the industry, which requires work from the manufacturers. EG - The Dye Rotor is a killer loader, and people are dropping the Halo's and VL's to pick one up. This is known as a 'shift', and it stimulates sales worldwide. Ideally a new (or existing) marker manufacturer will come out with something tremendous, and then sponsor Dynasty or another top 3 team, and decide to market their product. Hopefully the new gun needs a new type of tank, and so on. People will not just buy a new Ego every year. The Industry needs a shift again to that everyone gets to make money through re-equipping the end user with something new.
Remember that if a company goes bust in a slowdown, thats not necessarily a bad thing, in fact it can be very positive. Smart companies actually expand during a slow-down, and these are the companies to buy stock in if you have any spare cash, which you don't, because you're in the middle of an economic slowdown.......
It seems like a very doom and gloomy prospect.
Quite the opposite for us here in Ireland. Paintball is only growing bigger and better over the last two years for us
Quite the opposite for us here in Ireland. Paintball is only growing bigger and better over the last two years for us
i totaly go along with MissyQ very good in sight
robbo very doom and gloom but i can see your mates living is threatend so you are concerend
yes we will lose companys some shocks to come (just like some of our teams) but pb will survive and possible be better for the loss of some companys
you may just get a dynamic company to take there place and take pb into the next decade
robbo very doom and gloom but i can see your mates living is threatend so you are concerend
yes we will lose companys some shocks to come (just like some of our teams) but pb will survive and possible be better for the loss of some companys
you may just get a dynamic company to take there place and take pb into the next decade
Problem :-
Our current model of tournament paintball is too exclusive and too expensive. It has been created / driven by a handful of companies that wanted to sell us new guns / hoppers every year and to have us shooting ever more paint. Nothing wrong with that, but it ain't working no more.
Solution :-
Forget what the US and the continent are doing.
Have the new UK federation take a firm grip and 'make UK paintball over'.
Get some good ol' British companies to release standard markers (Eclipse / WDP) - even Sterling ? This will be a pump, or blow back style gun with a much reduced fire rate.
Force everyone in the UK to adhere to using this new standard kit, so we are all using the same / cheaper kit and shooting less paint. Establish a single format for tournaments, with clear league and divisional structures (nearly there on this one now).
Thus, everybody is playing the same game, from newbies to Nexus, and using the same kit (although in different divisions of national leagues).
Setup costs are reduced to under £200, for gun, bottle, mask etc - and this gets you the same kit that you can use from a walk on to what the top class pro's are using. Tournaments are reduced in cost to maybe £30, including your paint bill which is much smaller due to the limited kit.
Yes, a lot of existing players leave because they cannot use their high cost, talking, gazilion bps firing, air guzzling monster gat anymore, BUT, we then have an 'inclusive' sport that won't scare people off due to the high costs, and over time can begin to grow.
Final outcome is a lot more people, playing a lot more paintball in the UK. And UK engineering firms making markers with a sustainable business model selling new markers to new players, rather than 'having' to sell us a gat every year in order to maintain their expected growth figures.
We don't need to worry if the US or the Europeans think we are silly to begin with. Sounds like their worlds are about to be turned on their heads anyway. This could be a UK success story, and the model that other countries may eventually emulate.
Paintball has the potential to be an excellent sport. There's are not many things more fun than shooting paintballs at each other. People know this, and want to have a go. However, the realities of our existing sport either prevent people from starting up, or they start up and then quit shortly after. I strongly believe the main factor is cost, both startup and ongoing.
If we want to limp along with a fringe 'sport' that contains only a few hundred regular players, then we can continue as we are.
If the sport is to grow, we have to re-shape it into something more affordable and inclusive. There is no reason why 'fear' of upsetting the industry should prevent this from happening.
Over the last two years I have helped approx 20+ new players take up the sport. They all spent approx £1000 on kit, played some events, and currently all but 2 of them have dropped out of the sport. The reason for this is that our current model of tournament paintball is crap ! It is too expensive for kids, too expensive for people on low incomes, too expensive for guys just starting up families, too expensive for guys wanting to buy a house, too expensive to turn up and it rains all day, etc. The only people it is not too expensive for are a very, very few, who are either quite happy to spend what it takes (at this moment in their lives) or those with links / kickbacks from the industry. This model WILL FAIL.
You just cannot sell a sport that is going to cost them £1000 start up, £80-100 per event, and they have to train at least once a month and that will cost them £50 too. Not for under 5 mins trigger pulling time per day's play. That's just insane. They could probably get more enjoyment from rolling up their cash and smoking it. People realise this, either before they start up, or shortly after. They'll go play their xbox instead, or play 5'a side football, at £2 per day.
We don't have to go backwards. We can push forward with new leagure formats, new kit technologies, styles and fashions, keep Supair, keep the fast paced adrenalin fueled style games, but we don't need to spend thousands on kit and paint to do it - do we ???
I'd be interested to hear what other people think ...
Our current model of tournament paintball is too exclusive and too expensive. It has been created / driven by a handful of companies that wanted to sell us new guns / hoppers every year and to have us shooting ever more paint. Nothing wrong with that, but it ain't working no more.
Solution :-
Forget what the US and the continent are doing.
Have the new UK federation take a firm grip and 'make UK paintball over'.
Get some good ol' British companies to release standard markers (Eclipse / WDP) - even Sterling ? This will be a pump, or blow back style gun with a much reduced fire rate.
Force everyone in the UK to adhere to using this new standard kit, so we are all using the same / cheaper kit and shooting less paint. Establish a single format for tournaments, with clear league and divisional structures (nearly there on this one now).
Thus, everybody is playing the same game, from newbies to Nexus, and using the same kit (although in different divisions of national leagues).
Setup costs are reduced to under £200, for gun, bottle, mask etc - and this gets you the same kit that you can use from a walk on to what the top class pro's are using. Tournaments are reduced in cost to maybe £30, including your paint bill which is much smaller due to the limited kit.
Yes, a lot of existing players leave because they cannot use their high cost, talking, gazilion bps firing, air guzzling monster gat anymore, BUT, we then have an 'inclusive' sport that won't scare people off due to the high costs, and over time can begin to grow.
Final outcome is a lot more people, playing a lot more paintball in the UK. And UK engineering firms making markers with a sustainable business model selling new markers to new players, rather than 'having' to sell us a gat every year in order to maintain their expected growth figures.
We don't need to worry if the US or the Europeans think we are silly to begin with. Sounds like their worlds are about to be turned on their heads anyway. This could be a UK success story, and the model that other countries may eventually emulate.
Paintball has the potential to be an excellent sport. There's are not many things more fun than shooting paintballs at each other. People know this, and want to have a go. However, the realities of our existing sport either prevent people from starting up, or they start up and then quit shortly after. I strongly believe the main factor is cost, both startup and ongoing.
If we want to limp along with a fringe 'sport' that contains only a few hundred regular players, then we can continue as we are.
If the sport is to grow, we have to re-shape it into something more affordable and inclusive. There is no reason why 'fear' of upsetting the industry should prevent this from happening.
Over the last two years I have helped approx 20+ new players take up the sport. They all spent approx £1000 on kit, played some events, and currently all but 2 of them have dropped out of the sport. The reason for this is that our current model of tournament paintball is crap ! It is too expensive for kids, too expensive for people on low incomes, too expensive for guys just starting up families, too expensive for guys wanting to buy a house, too expensive to turn up and it rains all day, etc. The only people it is not too expensive for are a very, very few, who are either quite happy to spend what it takes (at this moment in their lives) or those with links / kickbacks from the industry. This model WILL FAIL.
You just cannot sell a sport that is going to cost them £1000 start up, £80-100 per event, and they have to train at least once a month and that will cost them £50 too. Not for under 5 mins trigger pulling time per day's play. That's just insane. They could probably get more enjoyment from rolling up their cash and smoking it. People realise this, either before they start up, or shortly after. They'll go play their xbox instead, or play 5'a side football, at £2 per day.
We don't have to go backwards. We can push forward with new leagure formats, new kit technologies, styles and fashions, keep Supair, keep the fast paced adrenalin fueled style games, but we don't need to spend thousands on kit and paint to do it - do we ???
I'd be interested to hear what other people think ...
I think you're along the right lines Simon, but there's no need to go to such extremes. How about applying something similar to your model to the lower divisions and entry levels and then allow the top level of the game to continue as it is?
Hi Syd. Is great to get some debate.
I totally hear what you are saying, ... but the problem as I see it is that people always want to copy what the big boys are doing. i.e.
If we setup something like above for KOTH, this will have an impact (in fact already has, and has possibly been the ONLY real growth in the UK scene over the last few years ??). However, these guys are seen as numpties, because they aren't using ramping guns, aren't shooting the latest gats etc. They know this, and it is another factor that puts them off. In all truth these guys will probably come to the point of view that players who spend hundreds of pounds every month on the latest kit, training costs etc, to play 5 mins paintball are the numpties !!!
In order for them to 'grow' through the scene they will eventually have to up their monetary input - and at that point we lose them.
I would imagine there is a greater number of people who play KOTH for a year or two, enjoy it, are ready for promotion, and then quit altogether, rather than moving onto 'better' things.
So instead I am advocating a change from the top down, ...
Nexus are still Nexus, still on the front cover of (UK ?) magazines / websites, but playing the exact same format game, and using the exact same kit as 14yr old Joe Bloggs can buy and afford to play, ... then watch said product fly of the shelves. Joe can afford to play; he can still afford to play when he goes to college, gets married, gets a mortgage etc. He can get his mates along, and they can also afford to play. That way we get RETENTION.
I fear that trying to keep the highest echelons the same as the status quo means that even if all the current effort does draw more new blood in, at some point it will still eventually leave again, when the costs just stop making sense.
If people can see what the elite of their sport are doing, and can then have a realistic chance to have a go at that same sport, then I think they will be happy, playing at whatever level.
However, when KOTH players see Nexus shooting thousands of rounds of paint during xball matches, they just don't say to themselves, "Cor, one day I'd love to do that". They might be awed, but most of those guys are going to think, "What is that costing them - fook that; what a waste of money !", and at that point the end has set in for them within the sport.
How many people who enjoy playing football regularly aspire to be in the premiership - not many. But that does not stop them enjoying playing still. I think the difference is that in essence the game they are playing is the same.
I am sure with all the young guys that I know who have started playing paintball in the last 2 years, they have been utterly blown away by the image of our sport - it is fantastic. But reality gradually dawns on them that they just ain't ever going to be able to afford to be able to 'play real paintball' - even 2nd hand kit costs, regular training and NSPL div 4 in semi mode is actually beyond them. Same goes for guys struggling on low incomes. They look at where they are trying to aspire to (Nexus) and think that if one day they had the money to train and play like that they would actually rather spend the money on something else anyway, .... and at that point we have ultimately lost them.
If we change what the image of 'real paintball' is, and make that within the financial grasp of most people, then we make the sport acccessible. If Joe has the same gun as Nexus, can watch them play the exact same formsat game as he plays, and it is purely their skill that seperates them, then he will be inspired to get better, or at least continue with the sport. Nobody wants to feel second class. And creating a fractured sport where the majority of people can only afford to be 'second class' just won't sell - or at least, won't encourage retention.
This makes lots of sence as then it would scale up in price, skill and dedication.
However im still of the belief that paintball is as expencive as you want to make it (unless your playing xball). As you can eaisly find a decent setup for around 300 quid second hand which is the same price as your ps3 or an xbox with a few games. Hell even the new Pmr is £199.99 and it kicks ass.
Perhaps paint costs and entrance fees could be cheaper but with more people playing thats bound to happen, what this sport needs is a absolutley awesome kick ass paintball game for your xbox or ps3 or what ever. If you look at skateboarding which is about just as cult, its popularity sky rocketed after the relase of tonyhawks on the playstation. Also paintball needs some kind of slot on Itv, channel 5 or something with like Nicky T commentating to get this sport some publicity because its simply beatiful to watch. To be perfectly honest i had no idea this sub culture exixted untill i saw it at my university freshers fair.
Also with regard to the price snowboarding, Rc car racing, mountain biking and god knows how many other sports are far more expencive than tournament paintball but yet they are still more popular.
Get us a decent video game and a decent slot on Tv to invade the homes of familys with the idea that paintball can be taken seriously.