cocker experts wanted, apply within !
- Thread starter Lucky
- Start date
Simple physics :-
same velocity != same range if balls are accelerating / deaccelerating at different rates ...
e.g cocker ball leaves the barrel at same velocity but is already deaccelerating faster than the other guns.
I suspect this is 'the old chestnut' previously mentioned.
And I have had the same problem with mini-cockers - sprung right up to get velocity, but still f*ck all range - at the time I was using a massive bore barrel, so probably losing too much gas around the ball.
Hence a lot of the hype about low pressure / high volume guns that have the ball still accelerating when it leaves the barrel - same velocity, more range (and larger whelts - yeah baby !). Of course, this is dependent upon other factors too (large enough gas flow rate, possibly using Co2 that expands all the way through the barrel, right barrel diameter, ...).
Maybe I should be a gun tech (??).
same velocity != same range if balls are accelerating / deaccelerating at different rates ...
e.g cocker ball leaves the barrel at same velocity but is already deaccelerating faster than the other guns.
I suspect this is 'the old chestnut' previously mentioned.
And I have had the same problem with mini-cockers - sprung right up to get velocity, but still f*ck all range - at the time I was using a massive bore barrel, so probably losing too much gas around the ball.
Hence a lot of the hype about low pressure / high volume guns that have the ball still accelerating when it leaves the barrel - same velocity, more range (and larger whelts - yeah baby !). Of course, this is dependent upon other factors too (large enough gas flow rate, possibly using Co2 that expands all the way through the barrel, right barrel diameter, ...).
Maybe I should be a gun tech (??).
That's basically what i worked out with skeetmaster, don't mock me too much for i know the error of my ways and i'm waiting for a santa delivery, but i'm still on the original barrel (only had the gun for a month now) I'm still trying to decide what to go for as everyone has differing opinions on what works and what doesn't, two piece, one piece, carbon, tefloned, freak, pipe, dye, armson, dah, dah, dah,dah,da.
The whole barrel thing is a big mine field and i don't really have the money for a pipe kit, so i'm looking at the alternatives?
We basically concluded that using the ****e unbranded site paint was allowing gas to escape around the ball and cause unusual spin variables. Like you say if your losing propulsion as the ball leaves, you will crono the same but lose the distance if the other ball is carrying more force behind it.
"Maybe i should try firing old chesnuts instead" !
The whole barrel thing is a big mine field and i don't really have the money for a pipe kit, so i'm looking at the alternatives?
We basically concluded that using the ****e unbranded site paint was allowing gas to escape around the ball and cause unusual spin variables. Like you say if your losing propulsion as the ball leaves, you will crono the same but lose the distance if the other ball is carrying more force behind it.
"Maybe i should try firing old chesnuts instead" !
Ps, any opinions on good cocker barrels, from those of you out there that have tried a few, rather than the people that have bought just one and manged to shoot someone out once with it, but that means it really rocks dude.
C'mon everyones had experience of a cocker at some point, so what works then chaps and chapesses? (is that a real word) ?
C'mon everyones had experience of a cocker at some point, so what works then chaps and chapesses? (is that a real word) ?
Col mate...
A Freak kit will work...and you should be able to pick up a suiable back and front quite cheap...then you just buy inserts as an when you can...start off with one that fits the paint yopu shoot the most...maybe one either side of that.
However, I would not advocate buying a new freak kit as that is SP, and I personally dont think much of The Messers Gardener.
Besides, if you could afford a Freak New, you may as well buy a pipe.
Try a JJ kit maybe...put a post in classifides and see what pops up.
A Freak kit will work...and you should be able to pick up a suiable back and front quite cheap...then you just buy inserts as an when you can...start off with one that fits the paint yopu shoot the most...maybe one either side of that.
However, I would not advocate buying a new freak kit as that is SP, and I personally dont think much of The Messers Gardener.
Besides, if you could afford a Freak New, you may as well buy a pipe.
Try a JJ kit maybe...put a post in classifides and see what pops up.
Well chaps, i think i can lay this thread to rest now, a few of you mentioned paint to barrel sizing, and it's one of the problems that i first thought of also.
I went out and bought a cheap S/H freak kit at the weekend and when i returned home i tried some paint that i had left over from the last time playing in the inserts. To my amazement a few balls actually dropped straight through the smallest insert (0.679) without touching the sides, gary did ask me about this but unless you have a way of measuring them a paintballs a paintball !
So the balls will leave the barrel at 300fps, but have a big dollop of gas all around them and no real force behind them >hence the loss of distance.
If anyone reading this doesn't get it, think of a mini and an articulated lorry both travelling at 70mph, the lorry with more kinetic force (weightxspeed) behind it will be much harder to stop than the mini even tho they were both doing 70mph.
Hence give a ball more grunt behind it and it'll travel further.
Thanks for the help lads.
(ps, haven't actually fired the gun with freak yet so i hope i'm right)
I went out and bought a cheap S/H freak kit at the weekend and when i returned home i tried some paint that i had left over from the last time playing in the inserts. To my amazement a few balls actually dropped straight through the smallest insert (0.679) without touching the sides, gary did ask me about this but unless you have a way of measuring them a paintballs a paintball !
So the balls will leave the barrel at 300fps, but have a big dollop of gas all around them and no real force behind them >hence the loss of distance.
If anyone reading this doesn't get it, think of a mini and an articulated lorry both travelling at 70mph, the lorry with more kinetic force (weightxspeed) behind it will be much harder to stop than the mini even tho they were both doing 70mph.
Hence give a ball more grunt behind it and it'll travel further.
Thanks for the help lads.
(ps, haven't actually fired the gun with freak yet so i hope i'm right)
Your analagy leaves much to be desired.Originally posted by diablo66
Well chaps, i think i can lay this thread to rest now, a few of you mentioned paint to barrel sizing, and it's one of the problems that i first thought of also.
I went out and bought a cheap S/H freak kit at the weekend and when i returned home i tried some paint that i had left over from the last time playing in the inserts. To my amazement a few balls actually dropped straight through the smallest insert (0.679) without touching the sides, gary did ask me about this but unless you have a way of measuring them a paintballs a paintball !
So the balls will leave the barrel at 300fps, but have a big dollop of gas all around them and no real force behind them >hence the loss of distance.
If anyone reading this doesn't get it, think of a mini and an articulated lorry both travelling at 70mph, the lorry with more kinetic force (weightxspeed) behind it will be much harder to stop than the mini even tho they were both doing 70mph.
Hence give a ball more grunt behind it and it'll travel further.
Thanks for the help lads.
(ps, haven't actually fired the gun with freak yet so i hope i'm right)
For your mini and your lorry to be comparable to paintballs they would need to be the same size, same weight, and have the same aerodynamic capabilities... i.e. they would both be mini's or lorries.
How you accelerate to a velocity is independent of how you will accelerate from then on.
If you take two identical mini's and bring one up to 70mph in 10 seconds, and another one upto 70mph over a minute. Then apply the brakes, they will both decelerate the same.
ok ok i was only trying to explain that if the ball seals good and proper in the barrel it will have more force !
Take two mini's same size shape etc etc but one is full of lead, if they are both travelling side by side at 70mph when they hit a load of nuns queing for the bus, the mini full of lead will squash more nuns as it will take longer to decelerate due to the weight behind it.
If you fire two identical paintballs, one from a good fitting barrel, the other from a poor fitting barrel, both guns running the same working pressure and being fired at 300fps, the ball that had the better fit will have the better range because it had more force to get it going. each paintball will only be subject to about 12" of acceleration, once it leaves the barrel it's on it's own, therefore if the ball has all the gas behind it it's gonna fly better.
Ok so i'm no mathmatician or physisist, i was just trying to help, that's all, i'll leave rocket science and exact terminology to another forum.
Take two mini's same size shape etc etc but one is full of lead, if they are both travelling side by side at 70mph when they hit a load of nuns queing for the bus, the mini full of lead will squash more nuns as it will take longer to decelerate due to the weight behind it.
If you fire two identical paintballs, one from a good fitting barrel, the other from a poor fitting barrel, both guns running the same working pressure and being fired at 300fps, the ball that had the better fit will have the better range because it had more force to get it going. each paintball will only be subject to about 12" of acceleration, once it leaves the barrel it's on it's own, therefore if the ball has all the gas behind it it's gonna fly better.
Ok so i'm no mathmatician or physisist, i was just trying to help, that's all, i'll leave rocket science and exact terminology to another forum.
while were at it, if your mini's apply there brakes at the same time but one has discs, the other drums then they will decelerate differently! NER NER NAH NER NER !!!!!!
That's true, but what you are talking about here is the mass of the projectile and the energy it is carrying. This has nothing to do with how the projectile was accelerated. So what you say above it true, but can NOT be compared to...
The ball that had a better fit if it leaves at the same velocity and has the same mass will NOT have a better range.
How it got to 300fps is irrelevant if it is then subject to the same forces to decelerate it as the other paintball.
It will have the same potential range.
Actually each ball is pretty much done accelerating after the first few inches. Some guns need as much as 6 niches, but most are done in the first 3 or so.Originally posted by diablo66
each paintball will only be subject to about 12" of acceleration, once it leaves the barrel it's on it's own, therefore if the ball has all the gas behind it it's gonna fly better.
Ok so i'm no mathmatician or physisist, i was just trying to help, that's all, i'll leave rocket science and exact terminology to another forum.
The gas behind the ball has nothing to do with how the ball flies after it has left the barrel. Nothing.
I wouldn't call myself a mathematician or a physicist either (although I have studied both) nor would I call myself a rocket scientist. But I am an engineer.