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cheating

Tyger

Old School, New Tricks
Problem.

Nobody really cares.

It's in the intrest of the tournaments to not buckle down hard on most cheating, because if they do they lose the players. Lost players is lost money. Lost money means they can't offer the prizes. No prizes and they can't get the other teams to play in the event.

So it's tolerated. Then it filters down, and it's tolerated there. Then the excuses are made, and it's rationalized, and it becomes somewhat OK.

I'm still shaking my head over the rules at Skyball. No post-game chronographing? Huh? Who decided this as SOP? Is this just another show of tolerance?

Just freakin' play.

-Tyger
 

UnFadabLe

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Apr 13, 2002
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You know what I find funny about posts like these is they always give the impression that "Pros" are a big group of cheaters. Of course there are some dirty players in the pro ranks, but there are dirty players in every aspect of any paintball game anywhere. Last time I went out and watched a group of newer players I saw the most blatant wiping Ive seen in a long time. In every sport people push or flat out break the rules it is part of life and no whining about it on forums will ever change it. GET BETTER REFFING! If you dont think the refs are good enough, go become a ref yourself and make them better.
 

chimpy

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Mar 26, 2002
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Originally posted by Tyger
Problem.

I'm still shaking my head over the rules at Skyball. No post-game chronographing? Huh? Who decided this as SOP? Is this just another show of tolerance?

I didn't see a problem with this at Skyball. Most of the players I talked with were running their FPS below the max on purpose. With the short Sup-Air fields, it was better to have a little drop on the balls to get them in behind the carrots and dorito. It created a lot of blind line shots that wouldn't have been achieved with a marker shooting 300.

I also think post-game chronographing would have slowed things down.
 

Tyger

Old School, New Tricks
Originally posted by UnFadabLe
You know what I find funny about posts like these is they always give the impression that "Pros" are a big group of cheaters.
Should I mention the tournament that was bought for chump change? It's all rumormill, and I can't back it up with facts, but when you hear stuff like this it makes you wonder. Then you see designer cheating talked about, and so on, makes you wonder. This stuff doens't all come out of a vaccumme. I'm not sitting here thinking up ways to slander the tourney guys (as much as you folks think I do, I don't.)

As for just pros cheating, no. I've seen some REALLY talented wipes from Rookies and Novices. Dark and Dank had a good wipe, on the jumbotron, at Skyball. Hell, the only thing the guy didn't wipe with the flag was his butt. All witnessed in full living color on the monsterous jumbotron at Skydome by hundreds. "Everyone does it." Well, I don't, and who is this "Everyone" anyway? I wanna go kick their ass.

Originally posted by chimpy
I also think post-game chronographing would have slowed things down.
See, I disagree. Even if it was grabbing a random yabo from each team and putting them under a microscope for 10 seconds it would keep teams honest. And at field 2 where I was, there would have been PLENTY of time to chrony two guys after the game.

-Tyger
 

chimpy

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Mar 26, 2002
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Originally posted by Tyger


As for just pros cheating, no. I've seen some REALLY talented wipes from Rookies and Novices. Dark and Dank had a good wipe, on the jumbotron, at Skyball. Hell, the only thing the guy didn't wipe with the flag was his butt. All witnessed in full living color on the monsterous jumbotron at Skydome by hundreds. "Everyone does it." Well, I don't, and who is this "Everyone" anyway? I wanna go kick their ass.

See, I disagree. Even if it was grabbing a random yabo from each team and putting them under a microscope for 10 seconds it would keep teams honest. And at field 2 where I was, there would have been PLENTY of time to chrony two guys after the game.

Dark n Dank...nice wipe, but you can't qualify them as a rookie team (even though they played as such). There was so much sandbagging at Skyball that it wasn't even funny.

Hey Tyger, Field 2...morning or afternoon session?
 

Tyger

Old School, New Tricks
Tyger...

Originally posted by goose
... and I suppose nobody has ever wiped/cheated/bonusballed or turned thier velocity up while playing in a rec/scenario game??
All the time. Problem is that in rec there's nothing on the line. No prizes, no cash on the flag, nothing. So when they cheat it's empty, they're just spending more of their own money and wasting my momey. Tournament players cheat in the hopes of gaining prizes and money. And most rec guys cheat becasue it's seen as "ok" because the tourney guys they watch at the local field "cheat too."

Last September at a scenario game I walked up to a guy on the other team, wiped a hit from his leg, and said "You missed a spot." He didn't care. He was also one of the local tournament boys from the field team.

Originally posted by chimpy


Dark n Dank...nice wipe, but you can't qualify them as a rookie team (even though they played as such). There was so much sandbagging at Skyball that it wasn't even funny.

Hey Tyger, Field 2...morning or afternoon session?
I know about he sandbagging, we played Novice becasue we had 4 novices, 1 rookie, and 1 Am (me). And we figured we'd get eaten alive in Am. I was wrong, Novice was full of the Am players.

And, field 2 was a PM. We were on the field with no pipes, we enjoyed it. We played the 2nd to last game before midnight. The Rookies played in the AM session.

-Tyger
 

Diggie

Great Balls of Styrofoam
In a different perspective...

It's not only unfair to yourself and your team if you wipe, play on and happily "try" to forget it, it's also a big big letdown to your opposition. What would the other team think if you wipe yo hits? They'd probably think they suck ass as a team. Not fair, evil. Pure evil. Like ze fruwitz of ze devil. Eeeeevil.

I like that jumbotron though. Every tournament should have one.
 

Tyger

Old School, New Tricks
...then Tyger kicks the hornet's nest...

I can't control myself. I'm listening to punk rock, I'm in massive ammounts of pain, and someone needs to feel the wrath. And it's this thread. And after being burnt out on another board, you think I'd learn, but no. I'm stupid, I'm a macochist, I like pain.

Ok, everyone talks about cheating. nobody ever has solutions. So, how about a solution? I have one that will prepare tournament players for what they want. Ready? You'll love this.

Video evidence.

Works like this. Since tournament play is taking place on arena fields, and the biggest "Perk" to playing these fields is the ability to show paintball on TV, let's prepare for it and discourage cheating! Allow video evidence to affect the game score.

Team A plays Team B. Team A has a player blatantly wipe a hit from his arm while in play. A representative from Team B catches this wipe on videotape. After the game, the cameraman approaches the video ref (Or possibly ultimate) for that field and says he has video of a player on Team A cheating.

The ref gives the cameraman 1 minute of his time maximum. He then watches the segment of tape with the blatant wipe. Seeing the wipe, he then penalises Team A with negative points, possible swing points given to Team B, and possible forefiture of the game due to a blatant act of cheating. That player is also individually punished by being forced to sit a game for each wipe infraction. So if that player wipes 3 times in a game, he's sitting for 3 games, and his team must play short.

On the other hand, if the ultimate can not, after 1 minute, definately say that a wipe took place, Team B is penalised by losing points from that game (Similar to losing a time out on a video replay in US Football) The incentive being that you must be 150% sure you have an obvious attempt to wipe a hit or your team is penalised in some manner.

Will it slow events down? Well, if there's a lot of wiping in a game then yes. Constraints can be placed on the presentation of video evidence (evidence must be provided within X ammount of minutes from the game's end, for example) But I think that just the social pressure of playing under the unblinking eye of a camera lens will keep many players honest. If that player who "Buffed the car" knew he was on the jumbotron at that specific moment, do you think he would have done it? Probably not.

As it is, many teams already have cameras in the stands. The cost of hand-held video cameras are coming down. And considering that players are already willing to invest thousands in a gun, what's 2-3 video cameras? Your players that are sitting a game now have something they can do for their team (as camera players). And if the other team has a video crew looking for you to cheat, would YOU give them that opening?

Now as for the punishment goes, I can see many ways it can go. Swing points, sitting players, game forfitures, whatever, as long as there's accountability to the players of BOTH teams. Team A would be accountable if there was a cheat on, Team B would be accountable for wasting the referee's time if there was not.

Its a solution. It's not the best, and it's not going to always work, but at least I'm talking solutions. It doesn't work to stop scenario game cheaters, or rec game cheaters, or small tournaments that have only a few teams in it cheaters, but it's a start.

There. Free idea for the world to use.

-Tyger
 

Rich S

Platinum Member
Jan 17, 2002
593
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Jersey
i work as a marshall at a rec site when i can and one day i saw this guy wipe and then he got shot on the goggles before i could get to him so he went off. between games i said that if i saw anyone wiping i would tell the opposition where he was and let him get lit-up. guess what, he wiped, twice, just in front of him, so i told the other team where he was, he got lit-up and didn't wipe again.
for tourney if some one wipes - they should feel the wrath of paint to teach them a lesson, if i were to see an opposition they would feel my shocker pumping out until he decides to leave the field, then hopefully the refs would 1-4-1 his ass as well.