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any good for tournys

JoseDominguez

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Oct 25, 2002
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the ball is chrono'd as it exits the marker......... so three balls from 3 markers travelling at 300 fps will all go pretty much as far as one another, yes you may get a bit of pop up, and yes, the less consistent markers will get different spin etc..... from ball to ball, but we are talking range, pure and simple, and each marker is only allowed BY LAW to apply a set amount of force to the ball, so ignoring flatline etc.... (which enhances range, but alters trajectory) any marker capable of reaching 300fps is capable of achieving the same range as a cocker. And as stated before.....the irregular cushion of air is more to do with paint to barrel match and the quality of your barrel. As for spin? if you can find me a text book that examines the effects of spin on a fluid filled sphere, I may take notice, but I think you'll find most examples refer to solid bodies and projectiles.
Anyway, the basic concept is basic G.C.S.E physics, a paintball at 300 fps from a cocker has the same energy as a paintball at 300 fps from a spyder (Assuming the balls are both identical)....... on the field this never seems the case.......why? think about it, the spyder may get a couple of 290's over the chrono, but it won't manage that consistently, top end markers run air, most spyders are on Co2 etc... etc... etc...
SO, most markers are capable of near 300 fps, therefore equal ranges. Yes you can switch barrels to increase range, but that's no different to pointing it up a bit......goes further, but it's an "up and over" shot. The difference is that a cocker, angel, timmy etc.... will consistently put shots out to the same range, the entry level markers aren't capable of that in strings of shots.
As for accuracy? well, we were talking about range. And accuracy is affected by a massive number of variables. It still boils down to consistency.......being able to put a large number of shots into the same spot.
We've had this argument lots of times, check back through the threads....... and there's no need for sarcasm, or at least make sure you're right before you try it :D
I'd still like to see the aerodynamics text book that includes references to paintball, personaly if I was studying the range characteristics of a projectile I'd look in a ballistics text.

;)
"BASIC BALLISTICS
As shooters, we are all interested in where the bullet goes once we have fired the gun. The ability to place the bullet where we want it is vital to any accurate shooter, and an understanding of ballistics is necessary to accomplish that in a consistent and reliable fashion. The body of knowledge as to the factors effecting the flight of the bullet from the instant it leaves the muzzle of the gun until it strikes the target is termed External Ballistics, and that's the subject of this discussion".

There ya go.
Still arguing? heres a question.........two paintballs one travelling 300fps from a shoulder height marker, one dropped from shoulder height? which hits the ground first?
That's a basic law of physics..... both are going to hit ground at the same time (ignoring external influence) so, both spend the same amount of time airborne.........the only thing that affects their range is velocity..... if you can accept this, then surely you can also see that if two markers fire balls from the same height at the same velocity, then both are capable of the same range.... travelling forward at 300 fps and both hitting the ground at the same time.
 

Munkeh

Planet of the Apes
Jul 12, 2002
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Jose, Exactly what difference does it make about there being fluid inside the paintball? I talking about the shell rotating not the centre of mass! So Jose, take two pieces of wodd fashion one into an aerofoil shape and one into any other shape... Now throw them! Do they go the same distance? If projected with constant velocity and a certain pre-defined height they SHOULD according to your basic laws of physics go the same distance! Now Jose do they? No! Why not? because of something called lift! When the airflow around an object is uneven you get lift (I say lift but this force acting on the object could be in any direction). If a paintball is rotating along the plane of motion ie. backspin then it will have lift! Now don't bull$hit me, this is an obvious fact and most definately not GCSE physics! if you want to to assume the paintball to be a particle (I use the term particle in the mathematical sense) then yes you scenario holds true! But as soon as you start moddeling the particel as a body with volume then rotation kicks in and you no longer have your lovely simple model! Oh, and why would you look in a ballistics text? I think my dear Jose thatit is actually an aerodynamics prolem and if you actually thought about some of the factors involved then you would see this!!
 

TOOLE

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Feb 27, 2003
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lets not confuse the guy/gal who started this thread with balllistic science. Mate, your spyder WILL keep up in tournies, but only just. You will want to buy yourself something like a cocker or an impulse (i have an impulse for sale here ) These markers are very upgradable, although the cocker is not electro and so you ill not get the ROF necessary to play back or mid effectively with it. Impulses are very fast, operate at low pressure (less kick, freindlier to balls).
 

Parksy

Platinum Member
Oct 27, 2002
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Originally posted by TOOLE
lets not confuse the guy/gal who started this thread with balllistic science. Mate, your spyder WILL keep up in tournies, but only just. You will want to buy yourself something like a cocker or an impulse
Bad Company seem to get along fine with there Spyder AMGs :)
 

Parksy

Platinum Member
Oct 27, 2002
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Nothing tricked about them from what I have read, apart from the clamping lo-rise and barrels they use :) Everything else is seemingly stock.

Can't comment on them going through several a tourney as I ain't read anything along those lines :) Probably another of the lies spawned by people like us who own markers 4 times more expensive trying to warrant the cash we spent on em :D

Dave
 

JoseDominguez

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Oct 25, 2002
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Originally posted by Munkeh
Jose, Exactly what difference does it make about there being fluid inside the paintball? I talking about the shell rotating not the centre of mass! So Jose, take two pieces of wodd fashion one into an aerofoil shape and one into any other shape... Now throw them! Do they go the same distance? If projected with constant velocity and a certain pre-defined height they SHOULD according to your basic laws of physics go the same distance! Now Jose do they? No! Why not? because of something called lift! When the airflow around an object is uneven you get lift (I say lift but this force acting on the object could be in any direction). If a paintball is rotating along the plane of motion ie. backspin then it will have lift! Now don't bull$hit me, this is an obvious fact and most definately not GCSE physics! if you want to to assume the paintball to be a particle (I use the term particle in the mathematical sense) then yes you scenario holds true! But as soon as you start moddeling the particel as a body with volume then rotation kicks in and you no longer have your lovely simple model! Oh, and why would you look in a ballistics text? I think my dear Jose thatit is actually an aerodynamics prolem and if you actually thought about some of the factors involved then you would see this!!
oh dear........ read what you wrote mate...... what the hell does this have to do with aerodynamics? does the spyder change the shape of the paintball in some way I'm not aware? and we were talking about the marker, not the barrel.........all of these factors (backspin etc....) are due to the barrel, not the marker. Yes backspin will let the ball go further, as would firing from the top of a ladder, doesn't mean the marker itself has a longer range.

Anyway, the argument boils down to this.
Do you think that a cocker at 300fps can fire further than a spyder at 300 fps? identical balls and barrels? both balls travelling at the same velocity? if so then I believe a number of military establishments would love to see your research. Is it powered by cold fusion?
And no, I don't want to assume the paintball is a particle, it isn't. It's a ball of goo mate, been playing long? I suppose you think rifling is great too :rolleyes:
 

JoseDominguez

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Oct 25, 2002
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?????????????? weird, wasn't aware it was turning into a bitch fest. And I honestly don't care what you wrote.
Just sick of the same arguments over and over again, people keep on trying even when physics grads, teachers and experts in paintball tell them otherwise. (not putting myself in that category).
Probably the third time we've been through all of this in about six months.
Anyway..probably time someone did a bit more paintball/ballistics/aerodynamics research..could be worth a PHD project? be a laugh too. Should have stuck with physics.

As for the original question.........you don't see many spyders at tournaments, their ROF can't keep up with the current super markers. More importantly, their consistency isn't as good. But I think a lot of it is the "bling factor"... a lot of players who criticise the spyder etc... haven't actualy used one......just not bling enough. You'd still get a good game, probably do quite well up front. For tourney I'd still go for a second hand marker from a reputable player. But no reason why you can't have a good game with a spyder. (plus you get braggin rights every time you take out someone carrying a £1500 cannon).

A lot of the price difference between markers is from the finish/milling/coolness....... does an aurora finish make a marker perform better? no.......but it costs the same as a complete spyder. :)

I'm not criticising bling...... aurora shocker/aurora e-blade/shoktech e-blade/eclipse cocker/ironman timmy in my collection. So I'll buy anything shiney.