Frans? Dutch flag as an avatar? Tell me you ain't Dutch...
Nah, this would have been legitimate never.
Angel Vs Cocker
- Thread starter Dunerat
- Start date
Here is a comparison of various top markers that I ran across on PB Nation. It was written by a Swedish guy named Johan who goes by the handle Färgbollen. The Cocker isn't addressed directly but it makes some major points.
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Comparison between Matrix, Intimidator, Viking and Angel 4
A critical look on the main competition (yes I'm being deliberately critical, no offense meant to anyone owning any of these nice guns which are all high end high performance guns):
Matrix
The Matrix is as stated above no more "closed bolt" than any other open bolt gun, that's just part of the sales talk hype. It's open bolt with an o-ring in the front to seal somewhat against blowback. That's all it is. And no way is it more accurate than an Autococker or Angel 4, which has also been claimed.
The #1 weak point:
Matrix is high maintenance. This is because the bolt system rides on o-rings. That's what? 5-7 o-rings that constantly wear that must be fresh for it to work, so it's essential you replace the o-rings on the bolt kit fairly often. If any one of them leak or at worst break (and they do) it messes up the gun completely. The same reliability as a blowback or should I say less as blowbacks usually only have one constantly wearing o-ring on the hammer/striker to worry about... Hardly a perfect design. The new Shocker 03 is basically the same, but at least it has a plastic bolt kit that makes for less wear and it has fewer o-rings on it to worry about.
After several years on the market tha Matrix is still much heavier and Fuglier than any Angel or Timmy ever and it seems very difficult to make the design any lighter. If anything, it's gotten heavier with the missing lpr that needed to go on the gun and is now more or less standard. Sure the DYE DM4 is better looking and lighter and supposedly more reliable, but it's not quite a Matrix anymore.
I'm still amazed every time I hear about yet another player getting a Nyx or other standard Matrix in favor of their old Angel, claiming it's a "better gun". As if.
People who buy them are just buying the hype. But Hype certainly sells.
Intimidator
Timmies have eyes that work well and that's about the one thing that's better. Apart from that they have nothing on the newer angel models. In general they have fairly bad consistency, they are no longer lighter or lower pressure/less kick that the new Angels, certainly not better accuracy. When it comes to looks some Timmies are quite nice-looking and have a classic clean look I like and others are really vulgar.
The #1 weakness is the speed at which it gets worn out. Yes, other guns need replacement parts and stuff continously too, but this gun wears out in 1/2 to a year and then usually needs a full overhaul. Newer models seem to get more and more expensive as the parts quality increases when the durability demands need to be met. But that also lessens the competitive edge of an originally cheaper gun than Angel. Just look at the new Empire Timmy. Is that the most expensive mass produced gun on the market today? How is that market competitive?
Timmies are hype too. Not as much as Matrix, but a great deal of Hype, and the EYE system is about the only real advantage compared to the Angel 4.
Viking
Well it's basically the same gun as the Angel. I't an Angel Clone, just like Fockers are Cocker clones. A Fangel.
They are very good, reliable and low maintenance. AKA has done a good job on it. The same good as an Angel is good. Its' only two weaknesses used to be it had a very limited bps due to the not so competitive board and it looked like a shoe box.
What AKA did that boosted their sales was to simply put a hyped up high bps board and a reliable EYE system on the gun. And now you can finally get it with decent milling if you want so it looks good, but that makes it much more expensive, almost too expensive to be competitive.
Conclusion:
Angel 4 is already one of the best looking guns out there, it's already consistent and low pressure enough for anyone but the most demanding (and they will still get a cocker anyway), already very accurate, already very durable (most old angels are still in use today), already lightweight, already very very fast shooting. The internals are high quality. WDP has excellent and even superior product support.
Maybe Angel just needs more Hype and EYE support? I don't mean the Sensi isn't good enough, I have very good experiences with it, just it has a bad rep and eye + hype seems to sell a lot of guns
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Comparison between Matrix, Intimidator, Viking and Angel 4
A critical look on the main competition (yes I'm being deliberately critical, no offense meant to anyone owning any of these nice guns which are all high end high performance guns):
Matrix
The Matrix is as stated above no more "closed bolt" than any other open bolt gun, that's just part of the sales talk hype. It's open bolt with an o-ring in the front to seal somewhat against blowback. That's all it is. And no way is it more accurate than an Autococker or Angel 4, which has also been claimed.
The #1 weak point:
Matrix is high maintenance. This is because the bolt system rides on o-rings. That's what? 5-7 o-rings that constantly wear that must be fresh for it to work, so it's essential you replace the o-rings on the bolt kit fairly often. If any one of them leak or at worst break (and they do) it messes up the gun completely. The same reliability as a blowback or should I say less as blowbacks usually only have one constantly wearing o-ring on the hammer/striker to worry about... Hardly a perfect design. The new Shocker 03 is basically the same, but at least it has a plastic bolt kit that makes for less wear and it has fewer o-rings on it to worry about.
After several years on the market tha Matrix is still much heavier and Fuglier than any Angel or Timmy ever and it seems very difficult to make the design any lighter. If anything, it's gotten heavier with the missing lpr that needed to go on the gun and is now more or less standard. Sure the DYE DM4 is better looking and lighter and supposedly more reliable, but it's not quite a Matrix anymore.
I'm still amazed every time I hear about yet another player getting a Nyx or other standard Matrix in favor of their old Angel, claiming it's a "better gun". As if.
People who buy them are just buying the hype. But Hype certainly sells.
Intimidator
Timmies have eyes that work well and that's about the one thing that's better. Apart from that they have nothing on the newer angel models. In general they have fairly bad consistency, they are no longer lighter or lower pressure/less kick that the new Angels, certainly not better accuracy. When it comes to looks some Timmies are quite nice-looking and have a classic clean look I like and others are really vulgar.
The #1 weakness is the speed at which it gets worn out. Yes, other guns need replacement parts and stuff continously too, but this gun wears out in 1/2 to a year and then usually needs a full overhaul. Newer models seem to get more and more expensive as the parts quality increases when the durability demands need to be met. But that also lessens the competitive edge of an originally cheaper gun than Angel. Just look at the new Empire Timmy. Is that the most expensive mass produced gun on the market today? How is that market competitive?
Timmies are hype too. Not as much as Matrix, but a great deal of Hype, and the EYE system is about the only real advantage compared to the Angel 4.
Viking
Well it's basically the same gun as the Angel. I't an Angel Clone, just like Fockers are Cocker clones. A Fangel.
They are very good, reliable and low maintenance. AKA has done a good job on it. The same good as an Angel is good. Its' only two weaknesses used to be it had a very limited bps due to the not so competitive board and it looked like a shoe box.
What AKA did that boosted their sales was to simply put a hyped up high bps board and a reliable EYE system on the gun. And now you can finally get it with decent milling if you want so it looks good, but that makes it much more expensive, almost too expensive to be competitive.
Conclusion:
Angel 4 is already one of the best looking guns out there, it's already consistent and low pressure enough for anyone but the most demanding (and they will still get a cocker anyway), already very accurate, already very durable (most old angels are still in use today), already lightweight, already very very fast shooting. The internals are high quality. WDP has excellent and even superior product support.
Maybe Angel just needs more Hype and EYE support? I don't mean the Sensi isn't good enough, I have very good experiences with it, just it has a bad rep and eye + hype seems to sell a lot of guns
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An excellent article, it really is a shame that he did not include the cocker in that.
I am personally a speed user , that is the WDP speed and am very happy with it, I have also shot an E-blade cocker and was very impressed by that too. My only comment to the detriment of the E-blade was the trigger frame was a bit too small for my stubby digits.
On the plus side the Angel is made in the UK, apart from that it is the feel of the marker that sways people one way or the other. My speed is actually softer on paint than the cockers (We had some old paint that would not go through the cockers without bursting)
I am personally a speed user
, that is the WDP speed and am very happy with it, I have also shot an E-blade cocker and was very impressed by that too. My only comment to the detriment of the E-blade was the trigger frame was a bit too small for my stubby digits.On the plus side the Angel is made in the UK, apart from that it is the feel of the marker that sways people one way or the other. My speed is actually softer on paint than the cockers (We had some old paint that would not go through the cockers without bursting)
Angel or cocker????
Anybody seen a half block yet?? With a race frame??? Scared the bejesus outta me. Accuracy, bps and great teching behind it, what more could you ask for??? Oh, and don't tell me angels are as accurate as cockers, and they are cheaper than A4's.
Anybody seen a half block yet?? With a race frame??? Scared the bejesus outta me. Accuracy, bps and great teching behind it, what more could you ask for??? Oh, and don't tell me angels are as accurate as cockers, and they are cheaper than A4's.
Nice article, too bad he wrote it while under the influence of some weird mushrooms....
Timmies not consistent? I never wanted a Timmy, hated them with a passion even, until I shot one, straigt out the box, and then took it to chrono. Never saw such consistency out of the box in my life, and it has been the same with all the Timmies I've held.
Face it kids, like all this sort of debate, this guy justputs forward his opinion, which is totally based on what he feels, rather than fact. He has some points, but must of it is just hot air. I could write something similar and slag off the Angel, but I'd rather stick to factfinding, and science to prove my points. Nice try Steve, but I know you are sponsored by WDP
Timmies not consistent? I never wanted a Timmy, hated them with a passion even, until I shot one, straigt out the box, and then took it to chrono. Never saw such consistency out of the box in my life, and it has been the same with all the Timmies I've held.
Face it kids, like all this sort of debate, this guy justputs forward his opinion, which is totally based on what he feels, rather than fact. He has some points, but must of it is just hot air. I could write something similar and slag off the Angel, but I'd rather stick to factfinding, and science to prove my points. Nice try Steve, but I know you are sponsored by WDP
Frans? Dutch flag as an avatar? Tell me you ain't Dutch...
Natuurlyk ben ik Nederlands, jy tog ook?Originally posted by Buddha 3
Nah, this would have been legitimate never.
Aaah Frans, talking B****cks again my friend!!
as other people have said, shot both, prefered the cocker, sold the angel, now have one raced evo, one unraced, and a sniper II love 'em all!
it's all down to what you like tho, so why don't you just get used to the fact you should go with your heart and get another cocker!!!!
as other people have said, shot both, prefered the cocker, sold the angel, now have one raced evo, one unraced, and a sniper II love 'em all!
it's all down to what you like tho, so why don't you just get used to the fact you should go with your heart and get another cocker!!!!