Filling your bottles

[Gee Tee]

already there, and my mate of mine did the "training course" and still didn't have a clue. His mate was so gee'd up about playing straight after didn't bother listening.

How would you like to be in the queue to fill your bottle, and in front of you is a guy who was out till 3am the night before and got totally wrecked, but still trying to fill his bottle not anywhere near sober.

Frightening thought..................................

If someone is in that bad a state through drink, I don't think they should be allowed to play let alone fill HPA bottles. In fact I'd be more concerned they may have driven to the game pissed in the first place.

I voted for second (safer) option, even though I feel confident to fill my own bottles

 

[Tom Allen]

If someone is in that bad a state through drink, I don't think they should be allowed to play let alone fill HPA bottles. In fact I'd be more concerned they may have driven to the game pissed in the first place.
I voted for second (safer) option, even though I feel confident to fill my own bottles

i agree, but i've seen it.

When you're 3 feet from someone at the fill rig, you never know what they've done the night before. They could even be Orlando.

 

[WihGlah]

I have a problem with other people using / messing with and generally touching my kit. I'm an engineer and fairly mechanically minded - so these things are second nature to me. I find other people - even so called experts generally incompetant.

I have my own 4500psi Scuba tank and keep my own kit well maintained and dent / scratch free.

If I went to a site where I had to surrender my gear for a tank refill, I would not go back.

I have the same issue with Scuba Diving. Most divemasters or instructors will tell me how to put on and set up my kit - often wrongly.

 

[Tom Allen]

I have a problem with other people using / messing with and generally touching my kit. I'm an engineer and fairly mechanically minded - so these things are second nature to me. I find other people - even so called experts generally incompetant.

I have my own 4500psi Scuba tank and keep my own kit well maintained and dent / scratch free.

If I went to a site where I had to surrender my gear for a tank refill, I would not go back.

I have the same issue with Scuba Diving. Most divemasters or instructors will tell me how to put on and set up my kit - often wrongly.

what's going to happen when your scuba reg needs a service at the hydro test, will you do it yourself.

With the greatest of respect, this has to be the dullest statement i've seen on here for a long time.

 

[CraigofScotland]

I have a problem with other people using / messing with and generally touching my kit. I'm an engineer and fairly mechanically minded - so these things are second nature to me. I find other people - even so called experts generally incompetant.

I am a marine engineer and completely disagree with your attitude towards air safety. As an engineer (that is a very broad term covering alot of disciplines, you didnt say which you are and what level . . . ) I understand you wanting to keep your kit in tip top shape, as do I, but why would allowing someone to hold your bottle to a fill station or supervise you be detrimental to your overall experience.

Perhaps you are a good mech engineer, what if someone else 'thinks' they are. That is where problems come in, lack of experience, judgement and knowledge.

Personally I am all for someone trained filling my bottle, or at least properly supervising the station. As with all safety items, complacency is not your friend.


(Wihglah, not a pick at you mate, I just think as an engineer you should be preaching technical safety, not trying to undermine it.)

 

[WihGlah]

I would like to preach safety - my point is that so many of the people who are "trained" or who think they know what they are doing , don't.

It's easy to say someone is trained and think they are therefore safe - sadly this isn't the case. Nor does training make people respect your gear.

I am a quality engineer for a major OEM and deal with so called trained people every day who fail to follow the training. Following a work instruction is not determined by the training somene has received - it's determined by the attitude of the individual.

Tom - I service my own scuba gear and would DEFINITELY not allow anyone else to do it. For the Hydro I would definitely get my tank done by a professional. (that's not the same as getting my tank filled). When it comes to my personal safety, I trust one person - me.


I suppose what I'm trying to say is this. Things go wrong because people make stupid mistakes. Training will not stop this because people are people.

Giving people special training is a poor response to a badly designed system.

However, in this case I think the system is actually well designed. Whilst 300bar air is inherantly dangerous, the equipment and system is designed to be fool proof. ie only the correct connectors can be used, and only when fully mated will a valve open etc. The worst thing that can happen when filling an air tank is that you haven't correctly seated an "O" ring and it leaks a bit. The same applies to badly maintaind kit.

Apart from not puting oil in your tank (which is obviously very bad) I can think of nothing I would want to train someone in.

 

[onasilverbike]

Another untouched side of this is, sites have insurance just in case any daft idiot runs into a tree or tries to eat a bunker. Are we insured to fill our bottles, should we even be allowed to fill our own bottles at a site.

Are they insured for their staff to fill customer equipment which they can only give the most perfunctory of visual inspections?

 

[Rider]

i'd be happier to see some middle ground.

i can see the need for a trained HPA person to be there - i'd rather they were checking and monitoring the fills, and giving assistance (or actually filling) where needed.

if you think about the number of fill lines available at a big event, who many operators would be required to keep everyone running? you can be damn sure that cost gets past on to the players - and rightly so.

however, if rather than an operator at every LINE, there is one to oversee every STATION, then the cost increase would be far more acceptable.

at the end of the day though - is there a cost too high for everyone's safety?

 

[Tom]

A system of air training has already been introduced (basic competence for self filling)
It was my understanding that this had been taken on in the tournament community prior to my experience in scenario.

Any game now displaying the UKSPC logo will only allow self fills by air pass holders, and offer the training brief for anyone not already having a pass.
This takes away the requirement of every site running their own scheme.

As part of it you get handed a copy of the HPA1 form:
http://www.ukpsf.com/documents/hpa.pdf

The air pass confirms that your have been briefed, signed up that you understand (and that the trainer is happy to sign you off)
What it does not do is qualify you to run an air station. But does allow you to self fill provied the site allows the fills - I would expect that with supervision, e.g. their insurance allows for self fill to those trained.

Note - On the options given in the first post I vote that fills be conducted by site staff as the other option is with no training. My preference is in between - supervised self fill by individuals with basic training

a. Should we fill our bottles personally without any technical knowledge or training, as we have been.
or
b. Should the site provide a fully trained person to fill our bottles, who has had training and is insured to do this.

 

[Thib]

What about pushing cp style fill nipple who reduce the filling speed ?
Slower filling = safer.

Cost pennies and easy to check.

Edit:
But I would prefer to have safer field with "lost paintballs".
As last time I take a "lost paintball" in the head was on last sunday, and last time I have seen a bottle blowing away was malaga years ago.