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Robbo

Owner of this website
Jul 5, 2001
13,116
2,157
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London
www.p8ntballer.com
Well, thank-you very muchos for that clarification Pipes, I was feeling kinda lonely out there :)

I think the only thing that needs explaining is my decision to delete the master's forum which on the face of it seems like some unthinking indulgence on my part, and I can't really blame anybody for believing as much .... that's mainly because they won't be party to events preceding my action.

I'm not sure I can explain it without compromising the privacy of Federation business but after reflecting on this problem for a while, I have come to the conclusion that everything I might need to discuss was within the public domain anyway, leastwise on these boards somewhere.

And so, here it is :-

Last year when the board was created, wendy was invited along because we were well aware we would need promoters when we embarked upon our program for the coming year [2009] .
At that first meeting, we agreed that UK ball was at an all time low and needed some desperate help.

Jim Frensham, at that meeting, put the point to wendy, and she conceded afterwards, that the product she was serving up for the UK player was one of the reasons UK ball was declining.
The event product had to change if we were to save UK tournament Paintball.

There were far too many events with far too many teams not turning up for them; the number of events had to be reduced to give those that were held, a better chance of survival ... no real rocket science or surprises so far ...

Our formula to appease this problem was simple, we run 6 events in the midlands /north [Masters] and 6 events in the south [NSPL].

As an integral part of this proposal, it meant wendy had to withdraw from promoting her southern events to allow the NSPL to gain some degree of traction in the south thus creating a healthier event series.

As an offset to any money lost from wendy's southern events, it was proposed she be given the Fed Cup [along with Chris] to recoup some of that capital.
On top of that, the Federation's sanctioning of her 6 events would mean they would be better attended because industry board members would all send their teams as well as providing vendor stands, both these helping to increase the money she had coming in.

Basically, wendy gave her word to the board and to Chris Pelling [NSPL] that she would remain out of the south.
There was no time period affixed to this promise merely her word being accepted by us on the board and by Chris Pelling.

So far so good .....

That was until all the board members received an email telling us she is moving back into the south because she needed more money.
Now, call me stupid, call me what you like but I would have presumed that any change to her word might have meant she gave the board [and Chris Pelling] some opportunity to discuss the situation prior to her breaking her word.
No such opportunity was given.

The Federation is never going to tell its promoters how much to earn or how they earn it, this is not our business ...but, if you give your word to us, then it's basic manners to discuss the situation before you declare you are breaking it ... it's also professional.

When I received this email, I immediately deleted her forum from my site, it was a knee-jerk reaction based upon the following reasons and I realised it would cause some players a slight problem, and for that, I make a genuine apology.
I make no apology for anything else mind you.

P8ntballer.com survives because people pay to promote their businesses, they take out banner ads and have company forums, basically my site is a commercial operation.
One of the true ironies to this whole episode is, the email wendy sent to us telling us she was moving back into the south was entitled,'commercial decision' .. I say 'irony' because wendy has never paid a damned cent to promote her business on my website ... not a cent, I allowed it to be on my site for free and for somebody who takes tens of thousands of pounds from you guys, she sure didn't aim any of it this way.
To be fair, I have never asked for any but that's not the point ...... and so, my deletion of her forum was ironically a true 'commercial decision' in that I got rid of something that wasn't earning me a penny but was still promoting her business.
But that's not the whole story here, would that it were .....

Nah, the real reason I got pissed off was this.
The only reason I got involved in all this Fed stuff was to hopefully steer our event series back to some form of health.
That's what I, and others, have been working toward.
I think you have to ask yourself as to people's motives here, do I earn any money from a healthier event circuit?
Who does earn ..... and earn a facking lot of dosh?
Tens of frikkin thousands of dosh .....
Have a wild stab into the dark just who could be earning all these tens of thousands .... and as a little clue to this investigation ....It sure as sh!t ain't me !!!!!!!!!!!

That acknowledged, let's look at the reason wendy gave to justify her move back into the south ... 'she needed more money', her words not mine.

Now, if just last year, she had readily acknowledged the reasons UK ball was in such a state, those of too many events in the south and the standard of events at that time, then there is no way she can reconcile her alleged 'best interests for the UK baller' with what she had just done by moving back into the south; not only had she broken her word, she also decided to compete with the Fed's NSPL events thus duplicating the very thing she acknowledged was one of the reasons UK ball was in such a state .... it's truly insane and can only be reconciled when you appreciate what's fuelling this madness ...... MONEY!!!!!

She was diluting the number of players who could attend each event thus decreasing the profitability of each event therefore compromising everything because...........she 'needed more money' ...... remember once again here, her words not mine!!!!!

THAT is why I was soo pissed off and deleted her forum, I wasn't going to allow my site to be used to promote her events to earn her more money at the expense of UK Paintball ........... call me irresponsible, call me what you like but my actions ain't motivated by money, hers are, she admits as much - go ask yourself what my motives are ........ and when you realise what they are, you can maybe understand my actions.
I'm Done ....................... in more ways than one !!!!!

PS Everything I have said in this post is the truth, if a certain person suggests anything different, then I'm afraid they are lying; the difference being, I can back my side up with the Federation Board and all its members who were present when things I have referred to were said or decided, the person taking another view has only themselves as witness.
 

kamikaze_chris

"DODDSY"
Dec 3, 2008
323
16
38
cheers for the insight robbo, all i can say is you obv speak from your heart, i hope i dont get jumped on but all this seems to be 2 steps forward (introduction of fed and some kind of governing body like all major sports have) and now this has happend which i really hope isnt the 3 steps back, i havnt been on the balling scence all that long but i have been intesnsly in it for the past 18 months training every weekend sometimes twice, and the amount of people i see come and again is astonishing, i think i speak the same beliefs as most of the grass roots paintballers that the fed well the structure it should bring has to work for paintball to become great again
 

Gadget

Platinum Member
Jul 16, 2002
1,759
619
148
Essex, UK
Posted this on Bon's thread in the other forum, but probably fits as well here:

I didn't agree with the original Federation decision to artificially carve up the UK into zones to avoid scheduling clashes - I understand the intentions behind it and know that the best interests of UK ball were at heart, but protectionism never works, the market should be allowed to determine which businesses survive and which fail.

That said, if an agreement had been made, I would expect some discussion prior to changing the terms, rather than making a unilateral decision and declaration.

I don't think it's possible for a central body to try and shape which events teams will participate in to 'save' the sport. I think an acceptance that the enconomy if going to knock paintball in the UK back a long way and a laissez faire approach would be better. Given that other events are also starting up this season (such as Sosta's Forumla 5, which I would certainly choose to play given the choice between that and a 'normal' format event), is there any acceptance that the Fed has failed in its attempt to set boundaries?
 

kamikaze_chris

"DODDSY"
Dec 3, 2008
323
16
38
i think your wrong, i think the sport needs a governing body of sorts like the FA is in football, then you have set out leagues cups etc for the season, even down to sunday league and saturday league football they all report to the FA if they want to be recognised leagues, it gives structure if nothing else
 

Robbo

Owner of this website
Jul 5, 2001
13,116
2,157
448
London
www.p8ntballer.com
Posted this on Bon's thread in the other forum, but probably fits as well here:

I didn't agree with the original Federation decision to artificially carve up the UK into zones to avoid scheduling clashes - I understand the intentions behind it and know that the best interests of UK ball were at heart, but protectionism never works, the market should be allowed to determine which businesses survive and which fail.

That said, if an agreement had been made, I would expect some discussion prior to changing the terms, rather than making a unilateral decision and declaration.

I don't think it's possible for a central body to try and shape which events teams will participate in to 'save' the sport. I think an acceptance that the enconomy if going to knock paintball in the UK back a long way and a laissez faire approach would be better. Given that other events are also starting up this season (such as Sosta's Forumla 5, which I would certainly choose to play given the choice between that and a 'normal' format event), is there any acceptance that the Fed has failed in its attempt to set boundaries?
The Federation was never created to 'set boundaries' and so asking if we failed in this is somewhat academic if a little ridiculous.

We set out to improve UK tournament ball and the 'laisser faire' ethos thus far adopted had already proved woefully lacking in that events were spiralling downward and something had to be done.

Since it was self-evident a hands-off approach to league management was failing miserably, it wasn't unreeasonable to assume a hands-on approach was maybe the way to go hence our creation and subsequent direction.
We were without doubt going in the right direction but this was always predicated upon certain parties being honest and keeping their word; when that didn't happen, it basically allowed you to ask the sort of questions you just have ... all we needed was a bit of honesty, professionalism and dedication ...not really much to ask in the scheme of things.

If wendy continues with her ill-conceived return to the south then she will, in no uncertain terms be the architect of another downward spiral of UK ball ... and for what????
Another few quid in her purse????

Ya know what?
I'd rather stay skint and hold my head up than pursue a course like that .... I just couldn't do it, I really couldn't :rolleyes:
 

Robbo

Owner of this website
Jul 5, 2001
13,116
2,157
448
London
www.p8ntballer.com
i think your wrong, i think the sport needs a governing body of sorts like the FA is in football, then you have set out leagues cups etc for the season, even down to sunday league and saturday league football they all report to the FA if they want to be recognised leagues, it gives structure if nothing else
Chris, we weren't doing it all to be recognised mate, we were doing it to try and allow the tournament scene to survive ........
 

WOODY LOKI

Has been.
Oct 25, 2006
468
38
38
St neots
I just wrote a massive post and then deleted it. sucks to be blonde.

and no ctrl z didn't work.

the long and the short of it is the sport dies or goes back to being a small extreme sport then the stores/series with better customer service and value for money will survive.

i must admit i'm so bored with all the politics.