50 cal - does the UK customer benefit?

[Padrao]

These "tests" are hardly conclusive. You've probably seen people dropping paint in their kitchens and calling it a test.

Everyone knows there are lots of variables in how a paintball flies and breaks. All I'm concerned about is that it breaks when I SHOOT someone with it, i don't care if it's going to break off your kitchen floor.

The proof is in the pudding gents, SHOOT it first, then make your minds up.

These drop tests are done this way because when you let a ball fall without any other forces acting on it other then gravity, you are able to calculate the energy necessary to break it, if you know from which height it fell.

This is not some irrelevant or inconclusive test, in fact, like you can see in the ballistic tests thread, this test is actually very reliable, the calculations made allowed us to know where the .50 would break, and the tests on the field confirmed what was expected... 90feet is the limit, at 100 feet the balls bounced and bounced like crazy, oh and the sting... hurts more then .68 cal. Thats using 300 fps.

 

[Dusty]

These drop tests are done this way because when you let a ball fall without any other forces acting on it other then gravity, you are able to calculate the energy necessary to break it, if you know from which height it fell.

This is not some irrelevant or inconclusive test, in fact, like you can see in the ballistic tests thread, this test is actually very reliable, the calculations made allowed us to know where the .50 would break, and the tests on the field confirmed what was expected... 90feet is the limit, at 100 feet the balls bounced and bounced like crazy, oh and the sting... hurts more then .68 cal. Thats using 300 fps.

All very well and good, where was this test performed and when, comparing .68 which grade/brand to .50 grade brand? No point compairing Draxxus gold to the .50 cal equivalent of draxxus field.

Take a top level tourney grade from each calibre and compare them. Store them in identical conditions, record your results then come back to me.

What you are showing me is a graph which states .68 and .50.

I can show you any amount of graphs where a 1 litre engine is outperformed by a 750 cc engine. the 1litre will be in a Fiat panda, the 750cc will be in a GSXR750.......

Compare like for like as far as possible chaps....

 

[Robbo]

I love it when people quote 'experimental' data as if it's the 'be all and end all' of an argument.
Now for the most part, this is fine but what irks me is when people do it who are unqualified to interpret experimental data let alone quote it.

But, if you are gonna quote 'experimental' data then at least make sure the tests were rigorous, and conform to the varying rules of whatever scientific branch these tests are related to.

I find there is a direct relationship between people who have agendas and the propensity for these people to quote amateur and sometimes misleading 'experimental' data to further their cause.

Let's see what unfolds and what pretenders are unmasked.

 

[Piper]

If a site switeches to 50 cal today they will get the money back that they laid out for the new equipment in 8-10 months, this is obviously based on paint consumption. So for the average site to change to 50 cal when they are going to change their equipment anyway makes perfect sense.

As for the paint not breaking from 8 foot at 50 cal but it will if it is 68 cal.......... There are so many factors when you test paint that to say one will break and the other wont is daft, couple of questions was the paint the same grade? What surface was it dropped on? When the 68 broke how did it break on the the ball surface, did it break on the seam or did it break on the surface of the ball?

As for tournament players........... No one is forcing anyone to switch from 68 to 50 cal.......... Yes you all seem like the industry is.

 

[Sid Sidgwick]

Joe the punter doesn't care, a hundred shots is a hundred shots no matter what size they are, as long as the price is reasonable and the customer doesn't walk away feeling robbed then its all good.

End of the day you go to a restaurant and order a steak it's £15. You aren't worried about the fact that steak only cost a quid or two, you walk away feeling you've had value for money.

The benefit to the customer is less pain and thats always going to encourage repeat business, people who don't like the sting won't come back as often. Repeat business means more people likely to be own gunners, more of them translates to tourney ball, tourney ball also grows.
Also keep in mind most sites will spend as little as possible on paint, often meaning really cheap, hard, nasty paint when as little as £1 extra a box can make a huge leap in quality.

The downside is that £1 per box translates to £130 a skid, or £260 for 2 skids, or £390 for 3 skids. Take it over a year and if the bigger sites are going through even 2 skids a month thats 24 a year which is over 3 grand.

I know there's one site in Ireland pumps through hundreds of people every weekend, and i mean hundreds as in 4-500. If each customer only shot 500 balls thats still 250 boxes a week, or 2 skids, which is over 100 skids a year.

Hands up if you are spending hundreds changing from your 09 gat to the latest 2010? Ego 9 - Ego 10 honestly are there hundreds of pounds worth of performance benefits? DM9-DM10? Yet they're still selling....

Once people see for themselves if there are REAL benefits to .50cal changing over won't be as bad as all that. The manufacturers WILL bring out drop in kits, Eclipse have started the rest will follow for fear of losing their customers for the sake of a drop in. If they don't people like Custom Products if they are switched on will make a killing manufacturing drop in kits for all guns.

Dusty for me this is the biggy. We tournament players are looking at it from our perspective in that will it be good for us, will we save money or end up shelling out lots for new kit only to have old redundent kit that we cant sell. But that, to me anyway, isnt the purpose of .50 cal, the purpose is to get more people turning up at sites to play as it doesnt hurt as much (as quoted by many people.) This will have a knock on effect of more people then getting into tourney ball thus rejuevenating the tourney scene.

Wheteher or not the paint is a success relies on sites, are they willing or able to get new equipment, what will the financial outlay be for them and how quickly will the see profits from it. If it is a success here then it may roll into tourney ball as well and we'll all be shooting it.

As a tourney player I dont want to be buying new kit (or drop in kits) as ill have a lot of expensive doorstops if .50 cal flies. I dont think the saving on paint will reach the end user-me enough so that I see a saving.

As a paintballer I see the advantage of getting more repeat custom and more people through the door as a huge thing for paintball as a whole which can only benefit me in giving me more people to shoot at each month.

For me im not quite sat on the fence more moving round it, checking out how it looks from both sides.

 

[Richie T]

whoops...

 

[Richie T]

If a site switeches to 50 cal today they will get the money back that they laid out for the new equipment in 8-10 months, this is obviously based on paint consumption. So for the average site to change to 50 cal when they are going to change their equipment anyway makes perfect sense.

Even if they are locked into 1 supplier? what happens if bad batches are made? what do they do then? bearing in mind all this paint will be comming from outside the country.

Also, whats to stop a new site from opening with 50 cal gear and slashing their prices? surely if that happens we are all doomed.

 

[Piper]

Even if they are locked into 1 supplier? what happens if bad batches are made? what do they do then? bearing in mind all this paint will be comming from outside the country.

Also, whats to stop a new site from opening with 50 cal gear and slashing their prices? surely if that happens we are all doomed.

There are right now 3 factories making 50 cal so it will be available from all of them..... Even if they are locked into one supplier, let's say they do a deal of some sort, then I am sure that supplier would sort out the bad batch of paint, it happens now with .68 cal, not like every batch from every company is always 100% right. There is only one company that makes paint in the UK so all the rest comes from outside the UK right now in .68, so there is no real argument here.

There is nothing to stop any site dropping their prices now even if they use .68 and don't switch to .50 Cal. It is their business and they run them how they want to, no one can tell anyone what they should charge for a case of paint, same as you cannot tell someone what they should charge for a beer or a pizza.

 

[Reiner]

Even if they are locked into 1 supplier? what happens if bad batches are made?

If .50 cal catches on there will be multiple suppliers. It's relatively inexpensive to convert .68 cal machines to .50 cal.

Having said that, .50 call will have to come close to .68 in performance, which virtually all of the independant testing done on new .50 cal has not been demonstrating.

At best, .50 cal will become an option for people to choose. But those places in the world where .68 is allowed will most likely stay .68 dominant, just due to theperformance differences. Which by the way, is the same thing that happened last time .50 caliber was available.

 

[Richie T]

There are right now 3 factories making 50 cal so it will be available from all of them..... Even if they are locked into one supplier, let's say they do a deal of some sort, then I am sure that supplier would sort out the bad batch of paint, it happens now with .68 cal, not like every batch from every company is always 100% right. There is only one company that makes paint in the UK so all the rest comes from outside the UK right now in .68, so there is no real argument here.

There is nothing to stop any site dropping their prices now even if they use .68 and don't switch to .50 Cal. It is their business and they run them how they want to, no one can tell anyone what they should charge for a case of paint, same as you cannot tell someone what they should charge for a beer or a pizza.

I understood 50cal site gun sellers were tying sites in? perhaps im wrong.

regards to pricing, they all pretty much pay the same, so if one site is only paying the alleged 30% cheaper price then thats a huge advantage to new / struggling sites. Then .68 sites will have to follow suit surely?