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50 Caliber Revolution

Cook$

Just the tip....
Jul 7, 2001
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So these new balls will be the same weight but smaller. I would imagine that makes the fill thicker? Does that mean the fluid dynamics of a ball in flight would be affected more, or less? I'm no physicist....

Also, if these balls are the same weight, what will that do to shipping costs?
 

Chicago

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Jan 31, 2005
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Also, if these balls are the same weight, what will that do to shipping costs?
They'll be pretty much the same, since the cost to ship paint is weight-limited, not volume-limited.

So good point - if the solution is smaller balls that weigh the same, they're not likely to ALSO be cheaper.
 

JNR-XV

www.ratz-paintball.co.uk
May 7, 2007
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Im not jumping on the 'being negative', as like buddah i am reserving judgement until i have seen/used these new paintballs. I also am quite interested in how it will all work out for paintball.

I do however, have a question about the above 2 posts.. (Cook$ and Chicagos posts).

If you have a smaller ball at nearly the same weight, you are going to fit more in hoppers and pots. How much is that going to affect "your" gameplay as you are carrying extra weight..
 

Buddha 3

Hamfist McPunchalot
And that would make a difference how? You don't want a shell that breaks easier! If it breaks easier, that means less of the paintball's energy is used breaking the shell, and even MORE of it impacts the player!
No. You even contradict this later on in your post... A breaking ball is basically a dissipation of it's energy. A ball bouncing is a large transferral of energy into the player, hence more painful (like you said).

As far as softer shells breaking easier, this is true, but I think we already agreed that a smaller ball also breaks harder. The end result could be the same.

You just don't know anything about these balls, Chris. Neither do I. All the reasons why they could be worse are true, as are all the reasons why they could be better. Determining beforehand that it must suck just makes people look like an argumentative fool. Only politicians make up their mind without knowing the full facts.
 

Buddha 3

Hamfist McPunchalot
So these new balls will be the same weight but smaller. I would imagine that makes the fill thicker? Does that mean the fluid dynamics of a ball in flight would be affected more, or less?
We don't know if the ball will be the same weight or that the fill will be thicker*, but less fluids means less influence caused by the fluids.

* Fill doesn't have to be thicker to be heavier. For all we know they could be loaded with mercury. I hope not though. :D
 

Buddha 3

Hamfist McPunchalot
They'll be pretty much the same, since the cost to ship paint is weight-limited, not volume-limited.

So good point - if the solution is smaller balls that weigh the same, they're not likely to ALSO be cheaper.
Only as far as shipping by mail is concerned. Having done international shipping in the past, the cost of shipping pallets across the world is paid for in volume when done by plane or truck (the amount of space it takes up in a container), and also mostly volume (with a minor extra charge if very heavy) when shipping by plane.
Although I must admit that the "rules" can differ per carrier, but the above is what I dealt with mostly.

So ordering a box of paint, assuming the weight is pretty much the same, will save the consumer nothing on shipping costs, but the wholesaler does save money.
 

Gadget

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Jul 16, 2002
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<Checks calendar>.....not April? Interesting ploy by an industry who are obviously in a lot of trouble and looking for a radical shift to revitalise sales.

I can see all of the major companies supporting it - why wouldn't they, as they'll be able to replace all of the equipment out there at a time when sales are slow.

However I don't see the benefits for the consumer. Even if they've addressed the design issue and it performs as well as .68, are we really going to see any of the financial benefits? Perhaps a marginal drop in the cost of paint, however you know that it'll be the supplier creaming off most of that additional profit and when you balance it against the cost of new equipment, it's going to take a long time to get a return on that investment.

Sadly I can easily see it happening - they'll release new markers surrounded by a lot of hype, sponsored teams will say how awesome they are and adoption will be slow initially and then snowball.

Personally, I think they can go screw themselves, I'm not forking out to replace perfectly functional equipment in order to support an industry. Call me selfish, but I'd rather see more companies go under and the industry slim down and transform.
 

Chicago

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Jan 31, 2005
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No. You even contradict this later on in your post... A breaking ball is basically a dissipation of it's energy. A ball bouncing is a large transferral of energy into the player, hence more painful (like you said).

As far as softer shells breaking easier, this is true, but I think we already agreed that a smaller ball also breaks harder. The end result could be the same.
I respectfully submit that you don't understand physics. Nobody can violate physics, not even Richmond.

If you make the shell break easier, that means LESS energy is spent breaking the ball, and more impacts the player. If you make the shell harder to break, then you spend more energy breaking the shell, so less energy impacts the player, unless the shell has gotten too hard to break, in which case it will bounce and put even MORE energy into the player.

Regardless, there is pretty much nothing you can do with regards to the shell to make it break with less energy on the player, because the only way to do that is spend more of the energy breaking the ball, but if it takes more energy to break the ball, it's going to start bouncing. And who is going to choose to shoot a paintball that doesn't hurt as much if it's bouncing more? Nobody!

Nobody chooses paint based on how much it hurts. People want the most fragile paint that they can still get out of their gun.

You just don't know anything about these balls, Chris. Neither do I. All the reasons why they could be worse are true, as are all the reasons why they could be better. Determining beforehand that it must suck just makes people look like an argumentative fool. Only politicians make up their mind without knowing the full facts.
Like hell I don't! Do I know the details about them? No. Do I know enough about physics and paintballs to know, in advance, what the limits on performance will be? Absolutely. It's no different than if someone issued a press release stating they had invented a perpetual motion machine. I don't need to know anything about it to know that it's not true.

If you make the paintball smaller with the same density, it will perform much worse. If you make it smaller with the same weight, it will impact with a force that increases 4 times the amount that the caliber is reduced. You can't have it both ways - if you're going to have similar performance, it's going to draw blood. And if you're not going to draw blood, it's not going to have similar performance. Anything else is simply not possible - and that's not even factoring in the 'cheaper' claim.

Now, they may be very cool for certain applications - perhaps milsim guys who are playing close-quarters or don't mind bleeding when hit. But if we put cheaper paintballs that either perform worse or hurt more (or both) in the hands of the general rec player, we are going to damage participation. A lot.

If this is meant to be a paintball off-shoot for a particular variety of player, great, no harm, no foul. The existence of .50 cal paintballs doesn't need to be any different than the existence of airsoft. But if .50 cal starts showing up at the rec field, we're in trouble.


And if you believe someone has created a paintball that is smaller, performs just as good or better, doesn't cause more damage on impact, AND is cheaper, well.... I have some press releases to send to you too.