HSE or N2?

[Skeet]

Like .. Empty bottle of Carbon canisters .. That'll be cheaper because there's no compressed air in them .. You can get them in steels lol. Like sometimes for shipping they empty them so they can ship them, then you fill them yourself.

That made me chortle momentarily

The "weight" of air, is more noticeable in a dive tank, taking the weight of a 12L Steel 4500psi (300 bar) tank from about 19KG down to a piffling 18KG...that's how much 54,000L of air weighs

So in a small 1.1L, my guess is that a full or empty bottle will fit in the same weight category for posting purposes

But as stated, it is against the rules to post a filled bottle...the couriers like to know, that while they are hurling packages across the warehouse, none of them are likely to explode and kill the monkeys that "work" there.

So, bottles, or technically receivers.

Steel ones, as usually used for compressed air on punter sites are heavy and normally only fill to 3000psi.

Fibre wrap bottles, are made with an aluminium bottle, wrapped in carbon kevlar. Much lighter.

Stako bottles, are carbon kevlar as well, but they have a special (some would say potentially hazardous) plastic liner, which makes them extremely light.

Fibre wrap tanks, come in 3000psi (older), 4500 psi and 5000psi flavours, but no site I have been to can fill to 5000psi, so it just means the bottle has a better safety margin, albeit mild.

Fibre wrap bottles are also subject to tighter testing schedules, which varies between newer and older bottles.

Some bottles are DOT tested, which is an American standard and not for use in the UK.

Some bottles are HSE tested, which is the UK standard.

Some bottles are Dual tested, DOT and HSE so they are OK here too.

The latest bottles are CE or Pi marked, which is a European standard, so also OK here too.

Test wise, you have between 3 and 5 years between tests, from the "born" date on the bottle. Some bottles may require 2.5 year tests, alternating between a Hydro test and a visual inspection.

Stako bottles, are single use as such and cannot be tested.

Regarding, "I've got no fecking clue.Lmao." GET A FCUKING CLUE!!!
Don't take offence to that. High pressure air, as has been highlighted recently, can be very hazardous, even for those who are used to using it and think they know the deal, so to have no idea about it, is a bad thing.

You are doing the right thing, by asking questions on here and you will get sound advice, from most people (Tom Allen, Russ Smith etc).

H-PAC, is a company that specialises in all matters of compressed air and often provide compressors etc at large tournaments, they will be happy to answer any questions you have.

Lastly. In case you were mistaken, HPA (compressed air) and N2, are different. N2 is only nitrogen (an inert, "safe" gas) commonly used in America. It's actually cleaner and more consistent that HPA, but only on a physics level and not in the same league as the difference between CO2 and HPA.

 

[DeepPyro]

but only on a physics level and not in the same league as the difference between CO2 and HPA.

I agree, but the absence of oxygen in PURE N2 means they are much less likely to go bang.

They will go bang if mistreated, put that's purely a pressure thing.

The presence of Oxygen in air adds the possibility of chemical reaction and combustion and so slightly more dangerous.

DP

 

[JayCee]

That made me chortle momentarily

The "weight" of air, is more noticeable in a dive tank, taking the weight of a 12L Steel 4500psi (300 bar) tank from about 19KG down to a piffling 18KG...that's how much 54,000L of air weighs

So in a small 1.1L, my guess is that a full or empty bottle will fit in the same weight category for posting purposes

But as stated, it is against the rules to post a filled bottle...the couriers like to know, that while they are hurling packages across the warehouse, none of them are likely to explode and kill the monkeys that "work" there.

So, bottles, or technically receivers.

Steel ones, as usually used for compressed air on punter sites are heavy and normally only fill to 3000psi.

Fibre wrap bottles, are made with an aluminium bottle, wrapped in carbon kevlar. Much lighter.

Stako bottles, are carbon kevlar as well, but they have a special (some would say potentially hazardous) plastic liner, which makes them extremely light.

Fibre wrap tanks, come in 3000psi (older), 4500 psi and 5000psi flavours, but no site I have been to can fill to 5000psi, so it just means the bottle has a better safety margin, albeit mild.

Fibre wrap bottles are also subject to tighter testing schedules, which varies between newer and older bottles.

Some bottles are DOT tested, which is an American standard and not for use in the UK.

Some bottles are HSE tested, which is the UK standard.

Some bottles are Dual tested, DOT and HSE so they are OK here too.

The latest bottles are CE or Pi marked, which is a European standard, so also OK here too.

Test wise, you have between 3 and 5 years between tests, from the "born" date on the bottle. Some bottles may require 2.5 year tests, alternating between a Hydro test and a visual inspection.

Stako bottles, are single use as such and cannot be tested.

Regarding, "I've got no fecking clue.Lmao." GET A FCUKING CLUE!!!
Don't take offence to that. High pressure air, as has been highlighted recently, can be very hazardous, even for those who are used to using it and think they know the deal, so to have no idea about it, is a bad thing.

You are doing the right thing, by asking questions on here and you will get sound advice, from most people (Tom Allen, Russ Smith etc).

H-PAC, is a company that specialises in all matters of compressed air and often provide compressors etc at large tournaments, they will be happy to answer any questions you have.

Lastly. In case you were mistaken, HPA (compressed air) and N2, are different. N2 is only nitrogen (an inert, "safe" gas) commonly used in America. It's actually cleaner and more consistent that HPA, but only on a physics level and not in the same league as the difference between CO2 and HPA.

Now that's what I call help .. Thank you all for your help. Pretty much sorted now, I think the steel ones site in my shoulder better than the rounder ones. But i'm still looking about. Cheers guys.

 

[Rabies]

The "weight" of air, is more noticeable in a dive tank, taking the weight of a 12L Steel 4500psi (300 bar) tank from about 19KG down to a piffling 18KG...that's how much 54,000L of air weighs

So in a small 1.1L, my guess is that a full or empty bottle will fit in the same weight category for posting purposes

Almost 400g difference by my calculations, so more than you might think.

 

[evoonline]

NEVER put lube near your fill nipple i dunno if it was already mentioned but OMG for the love of god and all you hold dear do NOT put lube or oil anywhere near the fill nipple on yer bottle.

 

[Jeff Abbott - Dye]

JayCee

The info that Skeet gave you is 100% but if I were you, I would try and get down to a shop and have them go through the different types of bottles available and the advantages and disadvantages of both. They should also be able to give you all the safety information needed to use High Pressure Air (commonly denoted as HPA)

HPA can be very dangerous and as you are relatively new to the sport, it would be an idea to get all the info you can so that you are comfortable using HPA.

For instance...

What Evo said is correct but he did not tell you WHY you should never use lube or grease on your fill nipple.... or if the fill nipple is the only place you cannot use lube....

In short. You need ALL the info before using HPA on your gun.

keka

 

[Skeet]

Almost 400g difference by my calculations, so more than you might think.

Heh, owned! I was going on my dive tank that I weighed before and after emptying...must not have been full!

Ok, so after some research, it would appear that my guesstimate was inaccurate to the tone of 3kg on a full tank.

To calculate the weight of air (for a given temperature) you multiply the volume by 306 (pressure in BAR) then divide this by 22.4 (1 Mole of air at STP occupies 22.4L, though I have no idea what STP is, I thought it was an engine additive!), then you have the weight of air in oz's.
If you multiply that by 29 (grams to the oz) you can then work out the weight of air in g/kg.

So a 1.1L bottle holds 435g of air and a 12L dive tank, holds around 4.75KG.

So, when posting a Dive tank, it will likely make no difference, but when posting a 1.1L etc, it may make a difference.

 

[Skeet]

I agree, but the absence of oxygen in PURE N2 means they are much less likely to go bang.

They will go bang if mistreated, put that's purely a pressure thing.

The presence of Oxygen in air adds the possibility of chemical reaction and combustion and so slightly more dangerous.

DP

Your right of course, but I wasn't so much talking about the safety side (hadn't occurred to me), rather the fact that N2 being pure, has less variation hence effect on consistency, than HPA being a mixture of gasses.

 

[SAMUEL.D.RYAN]

Heh, owned! I was going on my dive tank that I weighed before and after emptying...must not have been full!

Ok, so after some research, it would appear that my guesstimate was inaccurate to the tone of 3kg on a full tank.

To calculate the weight of air (for a given temperature) you multiply the volume by 306 (pressure in BAR) then divide this by 22.4 (1 Mole of air at STP occupies 22.4L, though I have no idea what STP is, I thought it was an engine additive!), then you have the weight of air in oz's.
If you multiply that by 29 (grams to the oz) you can then work out the weight of air in g/kg.

So a 1.1L bottle holds 435g of air and a 12L dive tank, holds around 4.75KG.

So, when posting a Dive tank, it will likely make no difference, but when posting a 1.1L etc, it may make a difference.

STP is standard temperature and pressure.

 

[Skeet]

STP is standard temperature and pressure.

So that would be what? One atmosphere and 20 degrees C or something?