Bottle Blows Up

[Dark Warrior]

Because I have a stako, and I was trying to fill as slow as I possibly could, but the slightest move on the handle would make it fill very quickly, so prehaps if there was a 3k fill as the post above suggested, prehaps that'd fill alot slower & safer? (Yes I know we wouldnt be getting the full capabilities of the stako with the 3k fill rather than 4.5k, but atleast we'd be keeping our lives, equipment and others around us safe)

Probably would have filled at the same rate but the amount of heat dissipated compressing at gas into a set volume from 3000 to 4500psi is greater that that going from 0 - 3000psi and its the heat that is the issue.

The Fill rate has been checked at the station and a 4500psi fill from empty for a .8l bottle is 10 seconds (a 1.1 should be around the 14/15 second mark).

That seems quick to me. I'm sure H-Pac fills are double that for both


What is puzzling is in this case we do not seem to have a particulate. We have heat and a compressed gas but we still need some sort of contaminating particulate, and to be perfectly frank, it does not have to be liquid based. If you have a fine enough powder it can be just as lethal in very similar conditions

 

[Oli HPG]

Had 2k in the tank mate as I had just lent it to someone to use.
I WILL STATE THAT EVEN THOUGH IT WAS LENT OUT, THE GUY WHO BORROWED IT TOOK IT FROM ME FROM THE FIELD GATE AND GAVE ME IT BACK STRAIGHT AFTER THE GAME SO PLEASE DONT TRY AND BLAME HIM!
God forbid, if he would of tried filling it.
If I hadnt of lent it, I wouldnt of been filling.
Nige

You can say it bro! I used your gat!

The only reason why I did not fill the gat is that I had to rush off to get mine fixed!

All I had time to do it put paint into the loader and give it back to you.

I am still shocked that it happened and yea...it should have been me!

I only realised that on the way home....did not even click while I was at the event.

 

[John C]

The Stako fans are prepared to offer any excuses but it all comes down to wanting a lighter bottle which to my mind isn't enough.

I dont think anyone has put forward that argument. (maybe they did and I missed the post)

To me the scariest thing would be to ban the wrong thing.
Lets say, (for the sake of argument) that the fault was down to the reg not being glued on to the bottle, and the reg had unscrewed an unnoticable, but critial amount during the days use (a big worry with preset regs).

For us to do away with a proper investigation, and just blanket ban stakos would mean alot of people still be using unsafe bottles, but believing the safety issue to be resolved.


Further I could make your argument, that people dont want a properly torqued and glued bottle/reg, because they quite like the convenience of being able to separate the two (for travel, or getting the bottle tested).

Safety must preside over convenience. But it has to be based on physical, not circumstantial evidence.

 

[spreadz07]

it should have been me!
.

Hi mate
I dont think that is an issue here as if it was you or anyone else I would never be able to live with myself. I dont want sympathy or anything like that but like I said, even thought I am damn lucky, I dont feel like I am hurt that much. Seriously I am sure I could have similar injuries walking home from the pub p1ssed and falling in a bush. All I know is from the look of what people who know are saying on here, it wasnt the bottle, Kitch has proved it wasnt the compressor, the reg we will never know but come on, loads of you guys have the same regs on your satko's. That means it must be down to some kind of oil or just a freek accident. Now I know and some of you guys that know me, know I would NEVER be that stupid to put anything near my bottle and I cant point the finger saying someone else before me did. They might of, will we ever know? I doubt it. The thing is if it was something contaminating the line on the compressor this could of happened to whoever went to fill. It just happened to be me at that time.
Kitch has also said that nothing was found in the line so surely that points the finger to me
We need to get hard facts back from the people that are looking into it.
Nige

 

[Oli HPG]

Hi mate
I dont think that is an issue here as if it was you or anyone else I would never be able to live with myself. I dont want sympathy or anything like that but like I said, even thought I am damn lucky, I dont feel like I am hurt that much. Seriously I am sure I could have similar injuries walking home from the pub p1ssed and falling in a bush. All I know is from the look of what people who know are saying on here, it wasnt the bottle, Kitch has proved it wasnt the compressor, the reg we will never know but come on, loads of you guys have the same regs on your satko's. That means it must be down to some kind of oil or just a freek accident. Now I know and some of you guys that know me, know I would NEVER be that stupid to put anything near my bottle and I cant point the finger saying someone else before me did. They might of, will we ever know? I doubt it. The thing is if it was something contaminating the line on the compressor this could of happened to whoever went to fill. It just happened to be me at that time.
Kitch has also said that nothing was found in the line so surely that points the finger to me
We need to get hard facts back from the people that are looking into it.
Nige

I know you wouldn't!

Love you dude!

 

[Dark Warrior]

One of the things to note is that "Carbon Fibre" Bottles, specifically those branded by Stako have been though rigorous independent testing in this country and abroad in an attempt to duplicate this type of occurrence and as far as I am aware the only way time anything like was experienced was with the presence of an oil based product.

I honestly do not think we will get anything conclusive from this incident as full independent checking of all the evidence is not possible.
That being the case if you own a "Carbon Fibre" bottle heed my earlier recommendations, plus get the fill nipple changed for one of the new filtered ones and add a nipple cover/cap

 

[Maddogwhitey]

a little question for thought. Pending the full results from the investigation, and any concurrent ones involving the effect of tempratures on carbon fibre bottles....

Would it be worth expanding the three minutes normally associated with an xball turn over to at least 5?

I only ask because round 4 of the inter uni is upcoming, and Id rather fill slower and cooler than feel that i would have to rush.

 

[Rider]

a good point.
if there is a general push towards ensuring fills are slower for safety, the turn arounds will need to be longer OR organisers will need to provide more stations.

 

[Maddogwhitey]

I belive more stations would yet further drive up the costs to the end user...eg us. I suggest slower fills until a better solution is reached.

 

[SimonGiles]

There have been some interesting comments so far on how to not 'flash fill' your tank; and that it is possible to accidentally 'flash fill' on any rig up and down the country.

Firstly, I had never heard the term 'flash fill' until after the incident on Sunday. I took this to mean filling a bottle very quickly (?). It would be interesting to hear from an expert what a 'flash fill' is, and what exactly is not flash filling ... Are we supposed to 'flash fill' or is this something we should always have been avoiding ?

Secondly, I have always filled my bottle the same way wherever I have been, ... attach the nipple, pull the lever, watch the gauge until you have the pressure you want, release the lever, detach and walk away. Now it appears I may have been uneducated and that there is more to this process to avoid 'flash filling'. eg. perhaps I should only of been pulling the lever half way.

Again, would be interesting to hear the expert instructions on how to properly use a fill station (I thought you couldn't go wrong, but now it appears there may be more to it than I ever realised !).

Now I used the rig at the Freekz site on Sunday and I know it was filling very quickly. Having thought more about it, I think it was comparable or only slightly faster than some other stations I have used. However, I can assure you that I was filling in way under 10-15 seconds !!!

Now I need to know if I was doing something wrong ... ?

I am in no way trying to incriminate anyone or anything here - just trying to continue the debate. I wonder now if some of us (myself included) have genuinely not been using fill stations correctly ???