Like it or not, we need Yank teams over here

[Nick Brockdorff]

Only partially true.
The narrow demographics are only interesting of you wish to target that demographic specifically

Well DUH - that is a given m8

My point just was, that we don't NEED to go after the biggest brands right off the bat - which is posibly the reason why so many events fail to get outside sponsorship (going for the hardest sales, instead of the easiest ones)

Coca-Cola receive more sponsorship requests in a day, than Smart Parts does in a year..... so we are fighting a loosing battle trying to attract them (or any other major brand), as things stand.

Not only because those companies usually focus on major media buys that target the broad population, but also because our sport is not local, so an MS Series has NO sale with their local Coca-Cola distributors - they HAVE to talk to european headquarters... and once you reach that level, we are talking to corporate executives and a global media agency, for whom it is too small time to even entertain the idea (not to mention the lack of documentation we have for effect, killing the idea right off the bat).

But, there are thousands of companies, trading in the US and European markets, that target our core demographic, who would be very interested in what we can do for them TODAY (not once we get the general populace interested in watching).

- clothing brands
- energy drinks
- music
- gaming
- gambling
- mobile services

Just to name a few

Red Bull is actually a really good example - because they started out sponsoring stuff like austrians riding dirt bikes up a hill untill they crash and Icelanders in suped up 4x4s driving up mountains at 100mph, or stongman competitions..... but they have stopped that to a great extent now, having become a mjor brand, and instead run 2 Formula 1 teams - and similar mass media advertising.

All this having been said.... another strategy that could be employed, if you really WANTED to go for the major brands - was to give away advertising to selected customers, because they will lend the media great value.

- Imagine giving free field sponsorships to Coca-Cola, Carlsberg, Shell (always need that dutch flavour in there ) and Unilever.... and with THAT backdrop, start working alternative sponsors for the season following?

- Suddenly Pepsico, Heineken (still with the dutch ), Kuwait Petroleum and Cadbury/Schweppes might find it interesting to talk to the MS afterall....

Nick

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

I'm interested in that too. Anybody on the inside know if this spike in sales was mostly created by selling more high end gear, or was mostly entry level gear?

It might very well be entry level gear... but my point is that there is no way for Smart Parts to control where and what these new customers buy, simply by advertising themselves on a tv show.... they do not have the brand recognition outside paintball, to do more than fix "paintball" in peoples minds... and as such, they are defacto paying for advertising for their competitors

Now, ofcourse there are ways to improve the stats a bit, like for instance running response advertising.... but to be honest, not that many (if any) of the major manufacturers, have an organisation geared for handling such type of advertising.

Nick

 

[Buddha 3]

Well DUH - that is a given m8

My point just was, that we don't NEED to go after the biggest brands right off the bat - which is posibly the reason why so many events fail to get outside sponsorship (going for the hardest sales, instead of the easiest ones)

Coca-Cola receive more sponsorship requests in a day, than Smart Parts does in a year..... so we are fighting a loosing battle trying to attract them (or any other major brand), as things stand.

Not only because those companies usually focus on major media buys that target the broad population, but also because our sport is not local, so an MS Series has NO sale with their local Coca-Cola distributors - they HAVE to talk to european headquarters... and once you reach that level, we are talking to corporate executives and a global media agency, for whom it is too small time to even entertain the idea (not to mention the lack of documentation we have for effect, killing the idea right off the bat).

But, there are thousands of companies, trading in the US and European markets, that target our core demographic, who would be very interested in what we can do for them TODAY (not once we get the general populace interested in watching).

- clothing brands
- energy drinks
- music
- gaming
- gambling
- mobile services

Just to name a few

Red Bull is actually a really good example - because they started out sponsoring stuff like austrians riding dirt bikes up a hill untill they crash and Icelanders in suped up 4x4s driving up mountains at 100mph, or stongman competitions..... but they have stopped that to a great extent now, having become a mjor brand, and instead run 2 Formula 1 teams - and similar mass media advertising.

All this having been said.... another strategy that could be employed, if you really WANTED to go for the major brands - was to give away advertising to selected customers, because they will lend the media great value.

- Imagine giving free field sponsorships to Coca-Cola, Carlsberg, Shell (always need that dutch flavour in there ) and Unilever.... and with THAT backdrop, start working alternative sponsors for the season following?

- Suddenly Pepsico, Heineken (still with the dutch ), Kuwait Petroleum and Cadbury/Schweppes might find it interesting to talk to the MS afterall....

Nick

Stop sucking up Nick. I know the Dutch are way cool.

As for the rest, I do agree, but while you and I are quite willing to think about smaller outside sponsorship, most of the people just have images of Coca Cola festooned teams running around. Hence that's what usually gets discussed.
As far as the free fields go, the only problem you may encounter there is that some companies may actually find paintball imagery the opposite of what sort of image they are trying to portray.

I think the Amsterdam legs of the MS always had a good start by having The Bulldog Energy Drink as a sponsor. That's the sort of stuff you and I seem to have in mind, smallish companies that are trying to reach "those who are cool".

And just a tip:
"My point just was, that we don't NEED to go after the biggest brands right off the bat - which is posibly the reason why so many events fail to get outside sponsorship (going for the hardest sales, instead of the easiest ones)"
Then stop using so many words and just say that. You would have had instant agreement from me there (for whatever that's worth).

 

[Chicago]

Missy:

Have you thought about why you find the college shows boring? I find all shows other than the college shows boring.

You're a very experienced paintball player who is very familiar with the pro teams and players. It's no surprise that you find shows with top-level talent you know more interesting than shows with midling-talent college teams you don't know.

But, for general audiences, and even the general paintball audience, the college teams are actually MORE familiar to the audience than the Pro teams are (no one has heard of many/any of them, but at least the college name is familiar) and the talent level doesn't matter any more than NFL players being more talented than NCAA players matters.

The problem is, there are a lot more general audience people than there are large black women from Harlem.


On a purely production front, especially looking at this year's shows, the college shows are definitely easier to follow.

As for whether the money comes from K2 or not, yes, that is ABSOLUTELY a problem. K2 spends money because they want to sell more paintball product. The people who pay for the paintball product are paintball players, so ultimately, the people paying for paintball programming are paintball players. If Coke is footing the bill, that means Coke is paying for the product, and while some paintball players may drink Coke, the vast majority of the money is NOT coming from paintball players.

One bit of trivia for you:

The NCPA has more out-of-industry money going to the league and teams than any other league by far. Between college funding allocations and direct out-of-industry sponsors, hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

The TOTAL amount of paintball industry money that gets spent on the league is about half of what somebody spends sponsoring a Pro team for a year. Now, that doesn't say much about our success at getting paintball money (although as a league, I'm not terribly interested in it), but it does say something about how much bang is delivered per buck when you have out-of-industry money to tap into.

 

[Chicago]

My point just was, that we don't NEED to go after the biggest brands right off the bat - which is posibly the reason why so many events fail to get outside sponsorship (going for the hardest sales, instead of the easiest ones)

Coca-Cola receive more sponsorship requests in a day, than Smart Parts does in a year..... so we are fighting a loosing battle trying to attract them (or any other major brand), as things stand.

Not only because those companies usually focus on major media buys that target the broad population, but also because our sport is not local, so an MS Series has NO sale with their local Coca-Cola distributors - they HAVE to talk to european headquarters... and once you reach that level, we are talking to corporate executives and a global media agency, for whom it is too small time to even entertain the idea (not to mention the lack of documentation we have for effect, killing the idea right off the bat).

Paintball is not too small. It's only what any particular party in paintball is able to offer that is too small.

And getting in to talk to those VP's at global marketing agencies is easier than you might think. Doritos brand marketing agency wrote us a check this year for example.

 

[Missy-Q]

Missy:

Have you thought about why you find the college shows boring? I find all shows other than the college shows boring.

The lack of action, movement, tactical awareness, and skill.

You're a very experienced paintball player who is very familiar with the pro teams and players. It's no surprise that you find shows with top-level talent you know more interesting than shows with midling-talent college teams you don't know.

I have never classed myself as a paintball player, and certainly not an experienced one. My 20 years have all been industry based.

But, for general audiences, and even the general paintball audience, the college teams are actually MORE familiar to the audience than the Pro teams are (no one has heard of many/any of them, but at least the college name is familiar) and the talent level doesn't matter any more than NFL players being more talented than NCAA players matters.

I can name NFL players and teams. I have never heard of the NCAA. Oh, and talent certainly matters, we are unlikely to agree that it does not. Sometimes when you are too close it is easy to make assumptions about what peoples general perception is

The problem is, there are a lot more general audience people than there are large black women from Harlem....

Yes, being a minority sucks.

On a purely production front, especially looking at this year's shows, the college shows are definitely easier to follow.

As for whether the money comes from K2 or not, yes, that is ABSOLUTELY a problem. K2 spends money because they want to sell more paintball product. The people who pay for the paintball product are paintball players, so ultimately, the people paying for paintball programming are paintball players. If Coke is footing the bill, that means Coke is paying for the product, and while some paintball players may drink Coke, the vast majority of the money is NOT coming from paintball players.....

You're mostly wrong here I think. K2 is not purely a paintball company, and even the small part of it that is turns approx 200mil per year. Wallmart are a $100mil chunk of this as the largest worldwide purchaser of paintball products, and the other sporting goods chains make up another 30-40mil. so approx 70% of the business that K2 does is done in the non-traditional marketplace. Those people are the general public, not the traditional paintball player and even if they were, the basis for all marketing and promotion is to sell more product, Even (and I hate doing this) companies like Coke etc are trying to get us to buy thier product. Its not a charity, people retain the choice to say 'no thanks', and pushing sales to wallmart in an attempt to create revenue through marketing on the TV shows is the most viable and mutually beneficial peice of paintball promotion I have yet to see. It makes sense for everyone. Having K2 invest in the shows is entirely positive. They are a huge corporation, with extensive funding for opening Paintball to a wide audience and progressing the sport. Thier money is as good as any other corporations cash, and to say otherwise makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. Money is Money, and people are not stupid enough to buy something they don't want/need just because they see it on TV. If they are that stupid, then they are past helping.
No, I say K2 are the perfect sponsor for the show. They use thier money, mostly generated at wallmart, to advertise on TV (allowing the show to go on air), and through this advertising they introduce more people to paintball, 70% of them through wallmart and other SG stores. A percentage of those people continue in the sport and buy other products from other manufacturers as the trickle down/up process begins. More people in the game, more people playing, everyones a winner.

 

[Chicago]

You're absolutely right. The difference is that K2 is sponsoring to sell more paintball gear, and Coke is sponsoring to sell more Coke, and where that money ultimately comes from.

Thus, the budget for K2's sponsorship is coming out of the paintball portion of the company, and reflects on the financial success of the paintball business. (Don't think K2 is charging the snowboard guys for the paintball advertising unless they're advertising snowboards.)

Wouldn't it be better if, instead of having a, say, $500,000 show funded by $500,000 of paintball money that we had a $500,000 show funded by $500,000 of Coke's money? Then that's either $500,000 less in cost of product to players or $500,000 more in profit for K2 (or investment elsewhere or likely some combination thereof.)



As for skill of players, I really don't think it matters much to the general audience - they can't tell the difference between a good player and a spectacularly good player unless they're looking at both at the same time. And other sports have already proven that people are willing to watch less-skilled players if they feel an association with them. Thus the massive success of NCAA College Football in the states. People also still go to their local high school's football games - even though the players, compared to NFL players, absolutely suck.

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

Stop sucking up Nick. I know the Dutch are way cool.

Well - Redlight district says it all really

You and me Jay - should get hired by the MS to run all their sales and marketing

Nick

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

Paintball is not too small. It's only what any particular party in paintball is able to offer that is too small.

And getting in to talk to those VP's at global marketing agencies is easier than you might think. Doritos brand marketing agency wrote us a check this year for example.

Ah - but why but the carriage before the horse?

Why sit on our hands while dreaming that Coca-Cola will call us up for a sponsorship, because we have finally gotten the tv thing down..... when there are all that money floating around out there ready to be spent on event sponsorships, albeit from less prestigious companies?

Nick

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

As for skill of players, I really don't think it matters much to the general audience - they can't tell the difference between a good player and a spectacularly good player unless they're looking at both at the same time. And other sports have already proven that people are willing to watch less-skilled players if they feel an association with them. Thus the massive success of NCAA College Football in the states. People also still go to their local high school's football games - even though the players, compared to NFL players, absolutely suck.

"Skill" IS arbitrary for the general public - but the level of exitement is not.

I have shown old school Traumahead DVDs to non-paintballing friends - and new style DVDs - and production quality aside, they found the new games MUCH more exiting.

The best players DO make the best show - even for non-paintballers.

Nick