Like it or not, we need Yank teams over here

[Robbo]

That was actually more or less my point, when I said it was too soon - but I guess it took a portuguese to put it in words you would accept

Nick

Nick, the points I differed with you, I then bought up and you then went on (eventually and begrudgingly) to concede, I did not rebut you on this point whatsoever so i can't really see what you are suggesting here.

You have now re wrapped your point, or so it seems, but I took exception to you implying the Euro teams were now closer to the Yanks than before.
I knew this to be utter bullcr@p and told you so; The Portuguese fella is NOT saying the same thing as you mate.

 

[Twizz ECI]

I wuld just like to say a couple of things here if i may, now i know my Pro days are gone and my involmentwith Pro teams has also gone but i have to agree that we do need the Yanks teams over here, they bring so much flare and stlye to these events and we all can learn alot buy both playing and watching them.
Regarding Compeating against these Teams, i agree with Magued that its all about Motivation with your training,as always alot of teams go to training with no real idea with what thay are going to do and just say F*** it lets play for a couple of hours then go home, then the following week they can't be bothered to turn up for training!!!! Now i know my Team East Coast Irritant are not setting the world on fire with our play, but my Team is Highly motivated, they have only missed 3 weekends since the 2nd week in January and 2 of our players have trained every weekend, and by the time the last event in Paris would have been and gone each player would have spent just over £3500!!!!!!!!!! and by that time we would look back and say we have done all we could have done ( which does include training in Holland and Paris ) and YES WE WILL BE BACK FOR MORE NEXT YEAR.

Twizz

Team ECI

 

[JUNIOR BROWN]

Let’s not have this thread turning into a Europe needs to practice harder. We all know that needs to happen.

Now as a few people know it’s so hard for the American teams to come over even if it wasn’t locked divisions, the cost of flying over is crazy and I could not see one team doing that if it plays NPPL and PSP. In the US most team are hurting for money if they are not owned by one of the big company’s and even then money is still tight. Not only money but time is another big thing! It’s so hard practicing for 7 and X-Ball if you were to add a trip to Europe in the mix it would affect their preparation for the other even and intern affects their results.

Europe needs the American teams over and in a perfect world they could play the series but for now that will not happen. I do think Europe should have an event in the middle of the year that is unlocked and American teams can come and play. That way the Euro teams can gage how they are doing and the other team in the lower divisions can get to watch the razzmatazz that come with the US teams.

JB

 

[Freddie Brockdorff]

Hmmm..... so how about having a number of "open" spots - like wildcards - at every event? Of course limited - but that way every american team interested could make say 1 or 2 events a year, but not play the entire series....

It sucks as to the ranking thingy as they wouldn´t be playing for their own results all year, but instead for an "american" result.... BUT if what most people say the american teams ARE in fact so much better than the european ones, well then they WOULD place high no matter who played the spot at the different events!

An idea - have 2 wildcards/open spots at every event.... One for a NPPL team and one for a NXL team?

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

Problem is mathematics Freddie.... if you add 2 teams, CPL becomes 18 teams.

So, how do you work out an even number of prelims games, and who is to advance from each pool? - And also, how do you ensure that 2 teams will show up at each and every event?

If it could be worked out, I'm all for it.... but instead of allowing them to figure in the Series ranking, it is a much better solution to NOT have them figure in the rankings at all.

So if for instance Dynasty played the CC and won ahead of Joy, in the series rankings, Joy would still get first place points.

That way, only a team that plays all 5 should get a series ranking.

Obviously, going by Petes word - every US team to enter, would have to be top ranked at the event, in order to make the draw fair

Nick

 

[Syd (NSPL)]

Freddie. If the two wild-card entries took home the glory and cash at each event, surely the European teams would suffer as a result? Or are we saying that we should put up with this in the short term and expect the Euro teams to step up to the level required to ensure this doesn't happen on a regular basis?

I think it would be great to have more US teams over at Millennium events. But I also think the bed has been made and we've got to lie in it. The only answer in my mind is not for US teams to compete in Europe, but for European teams to compete in the US as well as Europe - if they are motivated enough and dynamic enough to find a financial option to make this possible.

 

[Freddie Brockdorff]

Was just an idea!!! I know that the thing I suggested wouldn´t work mathematically.... Was just me thinking.... It would have to work some other way - perhaps take it up 4 teams instead and then have 4 pools of 5, BUT still only 8 to advance to sunday?

More games in the prelims I know - BUT could work if they made games from friday morning on instead of noon!

 

[Robbo]

Obviously, going by Petes word - every US team to enter, would have to be top ranked at the event, in order to make the draw fair

Nick

No, I don't mean that Nick, obviously the majority of any Yank teams who do venture over will be pro because of the money issues in coming here.
I would not lock this down it to 'Yank pro teams only', it would be open, just like before.

Let's face it here, what have we actually got in terms of how we set up?
We have a locked pro and semi pro league, and we do this to try and give the impression we are being serious and our sporting tournament theater is accordingly organized.
I think somebody said earlier in another thread that we ain't ready to be organized in this fashion, we just ain't ready, it's precocoius and pretentious to say the least.
And so, what are we in effect doing?
We are sacrificing the enjoyment of the majority for the sake of the minority.

In other words, the pros get the show fields, scoreboards, locked league etc and the upshot is, it precludes the Yanks and as soon as you do that, you then take away one of the major reasons why tournaments buzz...and it buzzes for everybody including the pros.

So let's stop pretending we are a serious sport, we ain't one and we need to go back to event promotion instead of pretending we are a serious league promotion.
We need the Yanks, we need them badly as this year's Campaign Cup has shown, and come to think of it, every other frikkin tourney we have had where the Yanks ain't here.

We must remember, the US sucks in terms of front end sales, the growth market is Europe as you know Nick, and therefore, the US industry will be re-directing resources eastwards toward us and that means, there will be some money made avaliable for supporting Yank teams who wish to come over..this is an important point that seems to have been missed by everybody.

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

We are sacrificing the enjoyment of the majority for the sake of the minority.

I honestly think this is the fundamental difference between us.

I do not for a second think the majority ´misses the "old days".

I seriously believe the majority of the teams playing in the MS like the fact that it has become MORE like a sport, and LESS like a festival.

I think the majority WANTS to play a "sport" - not take part in a festival (thought these two do not have to be mutually exclusive, as long as the priorities are in order).

And - why are we so preoccupied with being on par with the US teams BTW? - you don't hear the british basketball teams moan about not being able to compete with the NBA teams?

Why not just focus on making a really good european league, where everyone from the whole world is welcome to take part - as long as they can accept it is done in a decidedly "european" fashion?

Nick

 

[Robbo]

I honestly think this is the fundamental difference between us.

I do not for a second think the majority ´misses the "old days".

I seriously believe the majority of the teams playing in the MS like the fact that it has become MORE like a sport, and LESS like a festival.

I think the majority WANTS to play a "sport" - not take part in a festival (thought these two do not have to be mutually exclusive, as long as the priorities are in order).

And - why are we so preoccupied with being on par with the US teams BTW? - you don't hear the british basketball teams moan about not being able to compete with the NBA teams?

Why not just focus on making a really good European league, where everyone from the whole world is welcome to take part - as long as they can accept it is done in a decidedly "european" fashion?

Nick

You are right in the sense that the majority would like to be perceived as a serious sport but the unpalatable truth of the matter, we aren't, whether we like it or not.

And you know full well Nick that I was a prime advocate for seeking out our destiny in terms of locking the leagues down.
But the situation has drastically changed.
I have now seen the gap widen between us and the Yanks in terms of quality of play, and once again you are right in questioning this by saying. 'So what, why should we care'?

As well as seeing the gap widen in terms of play, I have also seen a palpable decline in terms of Millennium events, the buzz has gone and been replaced with a blanket mediocrity with occasional glimmers that happen seemingly more by accident than design.

My answer to you is this; Yes, players do want to be taken seriously but not so much as they would then sacrifice a frikkin good event with a real atmosphere about it.
The majority of Euro teams ain't gonna win fack all but they all pays their money and want enjoyment and the event infrastructure and attendant atmosphere go a long way to provide this for the average Joe.

Also, you ask why we should bother about falling behind the Yanks, well on one hand you declare all Euros wanna be competitive and in this instance you then ask me to believe the majority don't care about falling behind the Yanks.

These two things do not reconcile easily with each other Nick, you can't have it both ways mate.
When I played, I wanted to be the best, not just the best in the UK, or Europe or wherever, I wanted to be the best and every sportsman, if they are truly competitive, wants the same thing.
On that basis, we have already shown we are slipping further and further behind since the Yanks stopped coming, if we are truly competitive as you have stated, then it is obvious we would not want to fall further and further behind the best..we wanna be up there with them.