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Campaign......the verdict?

Robbo

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Dammit - why do I get into this hehehehe? ;)

Well there´s the "just for fun" teams, the "strictly competition" teams.... and then there´s those that like having fun - while they win!!!!

So yeah anyway - I would actually think Nick is right here, NO team I know of enter a millennium strictly to have fun - but they do of course like having fun while winning games.... but Winning IS still a greater factor than having fun!

So to reply you directly - of course enjoyment is a huge factor, but isn´t winning indeed more fun than loosing? ;)

Freddie, I suppose the point I am trying to make here is, a lot of people, leastwise in my experience play paintball to enjoy it, in fact, the vast majority do.

The complications arrive when we then factor in those who also play it to compete.

I cannot believe that the majority of Euro ballers enter into an event to just compete for the title of whatever division they are in.

And just so's there's no ambiguity in what I am saying here, we all know, that in most divisions, there will be say five teams at the top who run off with all the silverware, the remainder are just playing for breadcrumbs and have no real chance of winning anything.

This remainder will go to make up the vast majority of teams and so whilst they may be competitive in the definitive sense, they have no effective chance of winning, and they know all this...and so...they must be turning up for something else and I am suggesting that is to enjoy playing and i am also suggesting it is the major reason why they turn up with competing as a side issue.

These two factors (enjoyment and the need to compete) are inextricably linked I know but I think we need to get a handle on just how influential each factor can be.
 

stongle

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Aug 23, 2002
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In order to explain myself some more, and respond to Nicks post....

Nick, your view is not representative of the full player base or the fiscal realities of putting on an event.

Only the minority or the deluded play this as a "Sport". For all bar 15% players it's a hobby, recreational activity, but Sport? I don't really think so. Even the teams that claim to take it seriously, only the very few (there are some I agree Joy, Nexus etc) are training at a level equivalent to say Sunday League soccer.

Sure the best way to move the "quality" of Euro Ball forward is to treat it as a sport, but the CPL is effectively being subsidised by the lower divisions, which unfortunately do not. Unless you and all the other "believers" have extremely deep pockets or sugar daddies willing to bankroll your exclusive club, the Millennium should do more to meet ALL the paying customers needs not just the vociferous few (who believe their vision is the only way for Euroball).

As the events have catered more and more to the CPL type teams or style (locked leagues etc), support and attendance at the lower levels is declining and the Millennium is becoming top heavy. In your addled brain you might think this as a sign of success, but actually it's bad economics and ultimately this self indulgent gravy train will hit a buffer.

Like the drugs, the sum's don't work. Paintball is in the decline. Less people are playing and player retention is a problem. There is a small hardcore, but not one that is able to self finance CPL competition. Have you seen where the big companies are aiming their products? The Millennium needs to take this onboard and cater accordingly. The venture capitalists and business people running companies like KEE etc have a much better grip on the fiscal realities of Paintball than those playing it. The Mill needs to sit up and take notice. Sure niche companies can survive against larg(er) corporate entities, but they have to be stand out quality (such as Planet Eclipse). Virtually everything else in Paintball is becoming cheaper and more accessible to lower level players except tournament entry. Sure there are local events for the lower echelon teams, but the Millennium needs these players too.

The Millennium needs to build demand for it's series at the low level and grass roots, encouraging all teams to come and play. For that it needs to look at value for money. When the Millennium visits a country, every team in that country should be queuing up and thinking of playing it. Value for money will be driven mainly by game time and quality / variety of fields. On both counts the Millennium could do more. This in the longer term will lead to renewed growth in hobby paintball, and by extension Tournament / Sport Paintball.

As to the organisation of the event, I think a lot of effort actually was made. The location was considered, the planning good, the staff well mannered etc. For all this though, it's Achilles heel is lack of game time and variety. Oh and the frikkin Euro House noise they insist on playing over the tannoy, please some French jazz, St Germain etc (although I accept I could be the minority on that).

As to making you a poster boy? In my opinion, yes. Given the vociferous nature of you posts you must be expecting to be called out (and l suspect you rather enjoy it). You oft make salient points and I should applaud your conviction, unfortunately you're parochial, arrogant and utterly lacking in humility. For someone whom is a major protagonist of Euro Sport Paintball you don't half get on my tits.
 

Robbo

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As to making you a poster boy? In my opinion, yes. Given the vociferous nature of you posts you must be expecting to be called out (and l suspect you rather enjoy it). You oft make salient points and I should applaud your conviction, unfortunately you're parochial, arrogant and utterly lacking in humility. For someone whom is a major protagonist of Euro Sport Paintball you don't half get on my tits.


'kin' ell Glen, I wish you'd stop holding back :)
 

stongle

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'kin' ell Glen, I wish you'd stop holding back :)
I'm feeling a tad miffed. The team I played for paid the best part of 150 each to play 8 games this weekend before food, travel etc etc. The majority of that team go to every or as many Mill event as possible. These guys and all the players like them should have the Millennium catering to them as much as the higher level players, and sometimes that just appears a little lost in "some" peoples rhetoric.

I'm off to the Red Barn to start a fight.
 

Freddie Brockdorff

Olva the Berserker
Aug 22, 2005
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I'm feeling a tad miffed. The team I played for paid the best part of 150 each to play 8 games this weekend before food, travel etc etc. The majority of that team go to every or as many Mill event as possible. These guys and all the players like them should have the Millennium catering to them as much as the higher level players, and sometimes that just appears a little lost in "some" peoples rhetoric.

I'm off to the Red Barn to start a fight.
Maybe that´s just my personal oppinion - but what on earth makes you think, that "we" don´t think you guys should have just as much value for your money as the rest of the "serious" players/teams???? :confused:
 

Mario

Pigeon amongst the cats
Sep 25, 2002
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Maybe that´s just my personal oppinion - but what on earth makes you think, that "we" don´t think you guys should have just as much value for your money as the rest of the "serious" players/teams???? :confused:

Perhaps because the lower teams are never mentioned in any discussion in here? Because all that is ever really mentioned is CPL and SPL? You may think it it, but it is rarely voiced...
 

Woody69

Sandbaggin' aint easy
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Layout was good, plenty of toilets, air & chrono nice and close to staging area.
Might have been a good setup for the players, but it was a nightmare for the tek's, we could'nt hear ****, my head is still hurting from H-Pacs Truck!:mad:

Who ever is sorting the next millennium out please remember the tek's!
 

Nick Brockdorff

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Jul 9, 2001
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Nick, I swear I am not trying to pick an argument here (I actually get quite bored of winning them anyway :))but do you really believe all these non Brit Europeans enter the MS for the competition alone and enjoyment isn't a huge factor, if not the major one?
Well - you always bully your way to winning the argument, and then come back saying the same thing as me a year later - but that's besides the point :p

You are missing what I am getting at here.

ALL teams play paintball because they enjoy it - that is a given - why else would you do it?

BUT... there is a big difference between running a paintball team with ambition and direction - and then just doing it because it's a fun pasttime.

Whether there was bungy jumping, a good players party, music on site - or whatever, makes very little difference to the ambitious teams.... they go to the events to compete, to learn and to improve.... and what counts to them is reffing, fields layout, player area, tech support, and other stuff directly related to the game.

Glen is implying that the MS would be more successfull if all the things not directly related to the competition was prioritised, and I believe that to most of the European teams playing the MS, that is wrong.

I think the "festival" would have more of an attraction in the US, where you don't get Div. 2 teams with ambitions to become a pro team - instead you get div. 2 PLAYERS with the ambition to get picked up by a big team.

- it is a very fundamental difference between US and European sports IMHO

Nick
 

Nick Brockdorff

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Perhaps because the lower teams are never mentioned in any discussion in here? Because all that is ever really mentioned is CPL and SPL? You may think it it, but it is rarely voiced...
But it should be obvious that anyone who comes on here, discuss what relates to themselves most?

If any of the 7-man players feel they are not being heard, they are more than welcome to chime in!

Glen:

- your Robbolike insults aside, I still think you are missing the point. If you polled all the MS teams, you would probably find that less than half the teams play for fun (M5 and Div. 2 predominantly for fun).

NOBODY is saying the events should NOT cater to the lower divisions - and I find it weird you believe that I think so? - but obviously, with my main interest being the sporting side of things, that is where I invest my energy and my critique.

I just think you should realise that there IS a fundamental difference between US and European paintball (and sports) here..... heck - I see Div. 2 teams up here in Scandinavia, that practice 2-3 times per week, and have the ultimate goal of playing CPL!

I honestly think you are looking for an argument where none is?

Nick