Millennium Apathy !

[Syd (NSPL)]

Thats fair enough Syd. What if someone could replace that one prestigious tournament with something? A tournament of the same scale, but non millenium affiliated? Would that be better or worse?

Can't see it happening. I don't think a UK only event would compare. Why risk that sort of money when team numbers at major events in the UK are historically on the decline?

It would have to be part of a European wide circuit or why would the European teams attend? And, why would that new European Series risk holding an event in the UK if the Millennium decided to pull out.

Finally, I think a stand-alone event in the UK will always struggle to get an industry presence approaching the likes of the Campaign Cup. So the show is never going to be as good.

I am not saying its impossible, but unlikely, and why hedge our bets on a what if? My personal opinion is that I want the CC to stay and if it goes, we are all going to loose out.

 

[Robbo]

If we make a conscious effort to put agendas and prejudices aside and seriously think of the effect of the Campaign Cup not being held over here then I believe, if we are honest with ourselves, and also have a fair degree of knowledge re our domestic scene, then the inescapable truth, however unwholesome is, it wouldn't be missed.

However, I will add something here, if the CC had the same degree of promotion and razzmatazz as the Toulouse event then it would be missed .....but it doesn't.

CC is supposed to fulfill two functions here, one is to provide a tournament for ballers and the other to showcase paintball to the masses.

The latter being somewhat of a joke because I'm afraid the harsh reality of event promotion in the UK has always historically fallen on less than fertile ground .....the truth of the matter is, I doubt having the CC in Crystal Palace has had any significant promotional value to the masses at all...think about it.... and if you disagree with what I am saying be prepared to come up with some instances and figures that indicate the contrary, and the problem is.... you can't.

As for providing an event for ballers, it does this adequately, the function of the event is extremely good as is the overall organization, I can't really fault them in any way really on this in terms of the mechanics of the event unfolding.

But, paintball is more than this (and necessarily has to be) as Toulouse so readily shows. Toulouse is Toulouse because of Laurent, his fingerprints are daubed all over that event and although the rhetoric has been to claim a unified promotion of all events for last year and this, the differences between tournaments is stark.

Crystal Palace has always attracted the observation of the event 'rattling' around inside the stadium and this is about the best description I can think of because its exactly how it feels.

I remember the Mayhem's of old, I also remember when WDP put on the Hyperball events and FFS guys, this was fackin 10 years ago and those two events knocked the CC into a cocked hat....have we learned nothing here???

The solution to this is simple but I fear it won't happen.
The Millennium guys have to stop believing they are being attacked in threads such as these and they have to actually listen to what people say

All we want is an event series that is value for money and can enjoy playing.
Millennium tournaments should be an 'event' and not just a tournament, there is a profound difference and this is a difference that Laurent is acutely aware of and maybe the others are not so....

All the time, there is an 'us and them' mentality as indicated sooo many times by their response ethos , we all get nowhere....the choice is simple !

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

Nick, you always try to have the last word. Bit petty chap.

And your reply to THIS, will prove the irony of your statement

Nick

 

[Syd (NSPL)]

Robbo,

All agendas and prejudices aside...

Whilst I am not going to disagree with the substance of your above post, I will argue that the Campaign Cup does attract new players and motivate exisiting ones, and has exposed tournament paintball to more members of the public than any other event in the UK. I'm not for one minute defending the shortcomings of the Cup's promotion and at the same time as saying this I really do hope the Millennium Series take what is said here on board and improve things, BUT (yes, there's always a but) the CC is the best exposure we have at the moment. If it goes, we loose that exposure, however small or big its impact may be.

Also, we are kind of jumping the gun a bit here. It isn't really fair to judge the Cup's promotional value prior to the event happening this year. We really should let them show us what they have up their sleeves this year before codemning the event as having no promotional value.

 

[Nick Brockdorff]

I remember the Mayhem's of old, I also remember when WDP put on the Hyperball events and FFS guys, this was fackin 10 years ago and those two events knocked the CC into a cocked hat....have we learned nothing here???

I honestly think that is only half correct.

The World Hyperball thing was awesome, and by far the best event ever held in the world of paintball at that time - and could easily meet the standards of todays events.... WDP opened up the eyes ofthe whole tournament world with that one, and lost bundles doing it

But, the Mayhem events in the old days were a shambles - extremely overpriced paint, buy on site only, huge entry fee, crappy and semi-dangerous fields, understaffed, ****ty reffing, no proper shelter for the teams, etc. etc. - Mayhem 10 years ago, by no means had anything even close to the worst MS event at this point in time.

Actually, even back then, I felt the CC was better organised - it just didn't get the hype, because the big US teams did not attend.... but it was still a far cry from what we get today.

Nick

 

[Lump]

Pete that's spot on for a lot of us. we spend that sort of money we want it to be like the best event we have been to all year. showcase event, but when its only as good as an other UK event why pay the extra when you don't feel you have had a significant increase in your £ value

 

[Robbo]

Nick, I didn't mean to imply (as I obviously did) that the Mayhem of old was better in any way, I mentioned it as a precursor to the Hyperball events as a context and the revolutionary effect those two WDP events had for everybody.

You also mention the fact we don't get the top Yank teams and that is also a significant reason why the CC (or any other Millennium for that matter) has lost some of its glitz and importance.

You have been around long enough to realize the CC, as it is now, hasn't evolved at all, it has regressed, and at the same time become more expensive for less playing time and so on .....It's a particularly sad indictment of its management.

My honest opinion is this, Crystal Palace was being used for exactly the same reason ulrich hasn't been sacked ......exactly the same..

Peace !

 

[Lump]

alot is going to rest on this years CC if we dont get this right, and ballers DONT come away saying that was the best event ever..........

how will they come back next year

 

[Robbo]

Robbo,

All agendas and prejudices aside...

Whilst I am not going to disagree with the substance of your above post, I will argue that the Campaign Cup does attract new players and motivate exisiting ones, and has exposed tournament paintball to more members of the public than any other event in the UK. I'm not for one minute defending the shortcomings of the Cup's promotion and at the same time as saying this I really do hope the Millennium Series take what is said here on board and improve things, BUT (yes, there's always a but) the CC is the best exposure we have at the moment. If it goes, we loose that exposure, however small or big its impact may be.

First off, when you suggest the CC has attracted new players, then it implies people came to Crystal Palace who were not previously ballers and then went on to participate.......really?
I would have a real problem in believing this to be the case mate, the only non ballers I can think of who were at the event last year were the guys trying to break into our cars...and as for years gone past, I can't think of any people I met or had seen who would fall into your suggestion category, not one.

As for motivating our player base, it would take a stick of Semtex up their arse to motivate any significant numbers in our domestic playing base, you already know what it's like trying to motivate people over here and if you honestly think an event like the CC is gonna accomplish it where every other endeavor has failed miserably then I am afraid you are really mistaken.
It just ain't gonna happen mate and is mere indulgent rhetoric but I understand why you suggest as much.

Also, we are kind of jumping the gun a bit here. It isn't really fair to judge the Cup's promotional value prior to the event happening this year. We really should let them show us what they have up their sleeves this year before condemning the event as having no promotional value.

Any condemnations Syd have been directed toward previous tournaments mate but as you suggest, we should wait and see what happens this year but excuse me for not being too optimistic.

 

[Syd (NSPL)]

Pete, we'll have to agree to disagree. I am not going to spend my whole day defending the promotional merits of previous Campaign events. The Semtex comment made me laugh, but players watching the finals and dare I say it, the EXL, have been motivated to improve their own games - I can say that hand on heart, as I'm one of them and I know others.

See you at Campaign Pete - oh, and just so you don't go to the wrong place, its in Basildon this year, not Crystal Palace as this suggest you believe...

My honest opinion is this, Crystal Palace is being used for exactly the same reason ulrich hasn't been sacked ......exactly the same..