Best marker for punter days?

[Gee Tee]

There was a lot of Mag vs Cocker rivalry back in the 90's, with both fighting to be top dog. Having owned and shot both I can vouch that the Cocker has the edge on range and accuracy, and it's also easier on gas and paint. Minus side of Cocker is it's heavier, more difficully to set up, and harder to shoot fast without chopping paint until you get the knack of the trigger pull.

Both run far better on air but both need a remote on CO2, as getting liquid CO2 in a cocker is bad news. Later level 10 or X-valved mags are really good, especially when fitted with the ULE trigger mod. My own has shot about 5 cases of paint since I fitted the X-valve and hasn't chopped a single ball. A power feeder like a S/A reloader or revvy is more than enough for the rate of fire mech's can reach.

Never shot a tippy but loads of sites run them so they must be ok, and the basic blow-back design makes them really simple to maintain?

I've got an 05 Ego now but still hang onto my X-valved Mag, and 2 cockers one of which is an Eblade. They are just such great fun to shoot

 

[wingnutLP]

So I am thinking a WGP trilogy "cocker" as the Mag looks a bit expensive for occasional use.

The next question is which barrel for good range and accuracy?

I was leaning towards the tippermann with flatline until I read the review on http://www.a5ownersgroup.com/ which says it is great but really paint picky and hard to set up.

The apex barrel is meant to be good for long range and less fussy than the flatline but looks a bit gimmicky?

I don't really care about huge range but accuracy at mid to mid-long range is important to me.
It also has to be non paint fussy and easy to set up.

Hammerhead...

Or other suggestions?

Plus what do I look for in order to make sure the barrel fits the gun?

sorry for all the newbie questions I just want something that will shoot straight!

 

[evoonline]

different markers (guns) have different threads for the barrels, most if not all cockers have autococker barrel threads so thats simply it m8. make sure u get the right thread or u'll have a useless barrel. also depending on the paint your using (it all differs in size slightly) i think most paint is .689 is size but cheaper site paint is all sorts of odd shapes and could require a larger bore size like .693 or something to stop breaks and mad spray. either overbore i.e. buy a bigger size then needed or buy a barrel kit so u can change the size inserts or the back to suit the paint


i think this is right. anyone else ?

 

[Lucky]

so if I went for a mag what barrel for accuracy and range?

The second link to the cocker goes to a page of wgp trilogy guns was that intentional? is cocker just a nickname or is the trilogy a new model of the cocker?

Worr Games Products (WGP) manufacture the "Autococker".
"Cocker" is just an abreviated terminology.
The "Trilogy" range is the new products from WGP, that are being produced on a budget to compete in the lower price ranges.
They are not bad guns but they are not really the same as a "normal" cocker?
This is what everyone knows as a "real" cocker, and is infinately upgradeable
http://www.belsales.co.uk/p.JPG
but as you can see from the prices, they are very different
http://www.belsales.co.uk/p2.htm
For occasional use and if you have no intention of upgrading anything apart from the barrel then the trilogys will serve you well
http://www.pbreview.com/products/reviews/3235/
In my honest opinion i'd steer clear of the "gimmick" barrels and just get yourself something like the smart parts linear barrel or pick up a cheap freak kit off of this forum
Having different barrel sizes will help with accuracy and range, but as most site paint is square then your wasting time, money and effort trying to achieve accuracy with an unaerodynamic square ball

 

[Lucky]

different markers (guns) have different threads for the barrels, most if not all cockers have autococker barrel threads so thats simply it m8. make sure u get the right thread or u'll have a useless barrel. also depending on the paint your using (it all differs in size slightly) i think most paint is .689 is size but cheaper site paint is all sorts of odd shapes and could require a larger bore size like .693 or something to stop breaks and mad spray. either overbore i.e. buy a bigger size then needed or buy a barrel kit so u can change the size inserts or the back to suit the paint


i think this is right. anyone else ?

It depend on the brand being sold and can vary drastically from batch to batch. Pro teams will always have one batch for a tournament so as the paint remains the same size throughout the event.
Site paint in general is rubbish, to make the point i always test barrel match with 10 balls and out of that ten i'll have 7 that blow out nicely, 1 that jams in the barrel, and 2 that fall thru the barrel without touching the sides?
So i go with the size of the 7 unless i start to break when i move up a bore size.
Balls are different also when feeding fast? I've put 50 balls over the chrono in single shots while setting my markers up and then as soon as i've ramped to 15bps my barrel starts to ooze soup.
"we use site paint for cheap training by the way"

 

[wingnutLP]

Thanks so much for the help

I will definately be using site paint so I need a barrel that is not too fussy.

Are the terms insert / fin (hammerhead) / back interchangeable to mean the first part of a barrel?

Is this first part the one that you match to your paint?

Then what choice of caliber is best for the actual barrel? I assume there is a standard caliber that most sites use even if their paint is square!?

I was thinking either a J and J's set http://www.xtremez.com/paintball/product_information.asp?number=BRJJCEE&variation=98&aitem=&mitem=&back=yes&dept=149

or a freak kit with a 14 inch front http://www.xtremez.com/paintball/product_information.asp?number=BRSFIK&variation=&aitem=&mitem=&back=yes&dept=155

As a newbie will this give me any advantage using site paint or should I stick with a plain barrel rather than a 2 piece?

 

[Lucky]

Ok to answer your questions:
Are you in the USA? i don't know anyone that is doing JJ barrel sets over here in the UK?
http://www.punisherspb.com/smart-parts-freak-jr-kit.aspx
Inserts are the pretty coloured things you see in the above link, these are the important bits that you match to the size of the paint.
interchangeable back is used in the JJ set where instead of inserts you change the whole back section of the barrel to match your paint.
fin (hammerhead)? Sounds like a sex aid to me, and it is not used on a "proper" barrel
The technical blurb behind paintball barrels suggests that it is only the first 4-6" of the barrel that does any work, the rest of the barrel is purely cosmetic. All the acceleration of a paintball is achieved in the first part (or insert) and the tip of the barrel may only act to guide it a little straighter, but that is a subjective matter that people are still arguing about. I notice no difference in accuracy between my 14" freak and 16" freak, so the 16" doesn't get used as it is more of a target?

Then what choice of caliber is best for the actual barrel? I assume there is a standard caliber that most sites use even if their paint is square!?

A paintball is meant to be, and is based around the size 0.68", but in truth the more "standard" size insert used would be 0.691. That being said, you'll find that if you ever work on a paintball site you'll soon learn that size is never a consideration when the owner buys his paint, and you cannot actually buy a specific sized paint, merely some brands are larger or smaller than others and this varies across different batches of the same paint.
All this variance is why there is a massive market for aftermarket barrels, but it is all questionable as to the improvements gained in performance. i firmly believe that a well matched barrel/paint combination gives a far greater accuracy, whereas an ex team mate swore blind his stock Ion barrel out performed his freak kit? i disagreed with him strongly but he wouldn't be told?

As a newbie will this give me any advantage using site paint or should I stick with a plain barrel rather than a 2 piece?

Using a single sized 2 peice offers no real advantage other than any aftermarket barrel will out perform the sh!t sticks the manufacturers include with their guns, so buy a cheaper solid barrel instead if you choose to go that way. personally i'd go for the freak jnr.
Personally i have two systems, one for each gun. On my Ion i use this
http://www.punisherspb.com/smart-parts-total-freak-kit.aspx
and on my cocker i use this
http://www.pbreview.com/products/reviews/1415/
Given the choice i prefer the pipe kit, but that being said, i doubt i've ever used more than 3 sizes on either kit, so the freak jnr would do you ok + the freak is a little quieter so better in the woods
hope that helps and sorry for rambling on
Ps i hear good things about these too
http://www.luckyeurope.co.uk/catalog/index.php?cPath=34

 

[wingnutLP]

Mate, you are a star! It is always so encouraging when you join a forum and get sensible answers from people who (seem to!) know what they are talking about rather than garble from muppets!

I am in the UK but I work in the US a lot so I can have things delivered to my office there aned then bring them back without paying tax or shipping

Thanks for the explaination on barrels. I think I will get a total freak kit with a 14 inch front. I keep chopping and changing in my choice of guns though. I am not sure wether to go for the A5 or the trilogy autococker or something a bit more expensive...

You mentioned http://www.belsales.co.uk/p2.htm but it isn't clear to me if that is all mechanical and therfore OK for punter days.

Also I can't find the air gun designs automag you linked to in the USA anywhere their site only lists her guns http://store.airgun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.catalog

Does that mean they have stopped making it?

I really wish they would stop changing the names of everything!!

Thanks again people for all of your help

Alex

 

[arg1271]

MAte

Airgun designs make the automag
WGP/belsales make the autococker

Well I say make, most marker parts seem to be made in china/thailand etc then finished/assembled in the US/UK

 

[wingnutLP]

Sorry, I got myself confused and have edited my last post!

So is the pro stock http://www.worr.com/prostock.asp the latest model that WGP make that people refer to as the autococker rather than the cheaper "trilogy" version?

You can get what seems to be the 2004 original version (not the prostock) here http://www.actionvillage.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=EV4RYjzyCaMRTnqssanRyjZUGS91OOW4WRY=?ProductID=U32sFAY75LgAAAD61_7inKHi
for $189 which is less than £95