PSP Xball rulebook questions

[Baca Loco]

'Kay. What is the deal with the roster restrictions from the Masters up thru the Open divisions? Why, for example, are you restricting to 8 players the Masters division when you're asking 40+ year old players to play Xball yet Open can have up to 14 or 15 players? And only 11 players on a D3 team? Is there any rationale at all to these limitations? If so, I'm not seeing it. (Didn't see it last year either.)

And why is Masters an Xball division when large numbers of potential participants have expressed a desire to be playing a 5-man variant? Let's see, make the old guys play Xball and limit their roster to half of what the kids can have. Huh?

That's what I noticed on a first look see.

Oh, and the penalty times. Open plays 16 minute halves and uses a 1 min. minor penalty and 3 minute major. The NXL used to play 25 min. halves with a 2 min. minor and 5 minute major and now plays 20 minute halves with the same penalty times. I've harped on this before but it needs to be modified. Look, it won't be hard to do. Open the master document file and change a couple of numbers. Problem solved!

 

[PSPLane]

Either get your old ass out there and play...... or shut up.

The Masters division has 3 minute time outs. There is no need for additional rostered positions. If we made that available, a couple of the better funded teams would simply take the best players from the other teams to fill these unneeded positions. I haven't heard anyone complain about the roster size other than one guy who happens to live just around the bend from you.

The limited rosters in D3 are of the same idea, but a little different.

D3 is for beginner national level teams. Most of these teams come from the 5 man arena. It is far easier for a 5 man team with 7 players to add 2 players and feel competitive than it is for that team to FEEL they need 12 or more players on the roster to compete against the larger teams. And we desperately need to have as many new teams feeling they can be competitive in the lower division as possible.

As to the Masters playing 5 man -- who is it that you get your info from? I don't think I have had anyone even hint at that. As a matter of fact, the biggest response that I had to the initial idea was - "if we're playing Xball, I'm in. If it's 5 man, I'd just as soon watch and not risk the heart attack", or something to that effect.

I believe you got an ear full from one very outspoken guy and either you put a lot of faith in his opinion or you are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

As for the rules regarding penalty times - I agree with you and brought up the idea. But the NXL guys did everything but hit me with a brick at the mere thought of reducing penalties. I have no idea why. All it does is extends the time need to play the games.

On a different note -- I am working on something that I believe you will find VERY intriguing. As soon as I was approached about it, I thought of you. And it should separate you and the Russians even further from the pack in terms of the level and depth of the coaching you provide when compared to most other teams. Probably won't happen by the first event, but quite possibly by the second one. You'll like it, I believe.

Back to the heart of this post -- sack up and join in the Old farts League or stand on the sidelines and keep it zipped! Didn't you see me out there destroying those old codgers. Didn't that look like fun?

 

[Baca Loco]

Either get your old ass out there and play...... or shut up.

Flattery will get you nowhere.

The Masters division has 3 minute time outs. There is no need for additional rostered positions. If we made that available, a couple of the better funded teams would simply take the best players from the other teams to fill these unneeded positions. I haven't heard anyone complain about the roster size other than one guy who happens to live just around the bend from you.

WC got 6 teams and LA so far has 5 that haven't paid yet and rosters need to be restricted to protect the lesser teams?
I seem to recall a couple of extensive threads over at that other PB site both before and after WC regarding the format--as well as a loud guy who happens to live nearby. I am not however easily swayed to a point of view I don't think has any merit. If the Masters was a 5-man variant roster size wouldn't be any sort of issue period. (And you wouldn't have to worry about Gary buying more victories. )

The limited rosters in D3 are of the same idea, but a little different.

D3 is for beginner national level teams. Most of these teams come from the 5 man arena. It is far easier for a 5 man team with 7 players to add 2 players and feel competitive than it is for that team to FEEL they need 12 or more players on the roster to compete against the larger teams. And we desperately need to have as many new teams feeling they can be competitive in the lower division as possible.

It's also easier for younger, likely less experienced players at the national level to spread the expense over more potential players and consequently make it more economically appealing.
And surely the same argument against a larger roster applies to the higher divisions far more than to D3.
I follow the argument but I think it's mistaken.

..or you are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

Two simple questions is a mountain?

As for the rules regarding penalty times - I agree with you and brought up the idea. But the NXL guys did everything but hit me with a brick at the mere thought of reducing penalties. I have no idea why. All it does is extends the time need to play the games.

Are you talking franchise representatives or a more exclusive group cus I don't recall receiving an invitation. Does 'Animal Farm' ring any bells?

On a different note -- I am working on something that I believe you will find VERY intriguing. As soon as I was approached about it, I thought of you. And it should separate you and the Russians even further from the pack in terms of the level and depth of the coaching you provide when compared to most other teams. Probably won't happen by the first event, but quite possibly by the second one. You'll like it, I believe.

Tease. I can hardly wait and while I appreciate being included in the same sentence as our Rooskies pals there's only so much a guy can do. I am however working on training some new people to new jobs which I hope and expect will improve our efforts on the coaching front this season.

Back to the heart of this post -- sack up and join in the Old farts League or stand on the sidelines and keep it zipped! Didn't you see me out there destroying those old codgers. Didn't that look like fun?

If I could get some assurance there wouldn't be any conflict in the scheduling ... I've had a couple of offers and there is little I'd like better than to blow you up trying to get those creaky old wheels spinning.

 

[BOOGIE]

Oh man you guys make my day Bacca i hope you play im sure it would be a blast

 

[Chicago]

WC got 6 teams and LA so far has 5 that haven't paid yet and rosters need to be restricted to protect the lesser teams?

I don't see the connection. Some people are lazy about paying entry fees.

8 spots is plenty. More than 8 and the people with more players don't have to drive themselves as close to death as the teams with fewer players.

I seem to recall a couple of extensive threads over at that other PB site both before and after WC regarding the format--as well as a loud guy who happens to live nearby. I am not however easily swayed to a point of view I don't think has any merit. If the Masters was a 5-man variant roster size wouldn't be any sort of issue period. (And you wouldn't have to worry about Gary buying more victories. )

You of all people should be familiar with the propensity of the vocal minority to show up on forums.

It's also easier for younger, likely less experienced players at the national level to spread the expense over more potential players and consequently make it more economically appealing.

Not true in practice. If you expand the roster from 10 people to 15 people, the 5 additional people are the players who are going to barely play at all. If a team is sponsored so the players don't pay, then this works for the team. But if the team is NOT sponsored and the per-player cost matters, adding 5 roster spots only HURTS that team, because:

1) They won't be able to get 5 more players to pay entry fees to barely play at all.
2) The teams that are sponsored will.

And surely the same argument against a larger roster applies to the higher divisions far more than to D3.

Setting aside for a moment that it was a bad argument for D3 in the first place, D2 and D1 teams are more likely to be sponsored. For sponsored teams, the financial considerations are how much it costs to get the whole team there - in which case the FEWER players you have, the better. You're already paying the entry fee and for paint - more bodies is just more plane tickets, hotel rooms and rental cars.

And you can see that in the roster sizes - most D2 teams have 10-12 players, EVEN THOUGH they COULD have 15. D1 teams are more likely to carry 15 players, but D1 teams also play full-on XBall and D2/D3 play XLite.

Which is another point - if 15 is good enough for D1/NXL XBall, ain't 11 good enough for XBall Lite?

 

[MissyQ]

someone told me that this division is a relaxed and enjoyable one to play, without the usual bitching and whining.
I went out to watch a game in Orlando because of this recommendation, and lo and behold, there's an industry 'oldie' bitching and whining-up a storm in a high-pitched old-womans voice'. I think his team went on to win, but not sure.

Is this an indication that the veterans league too is doomed to decend into the same depths of paintball behavior we 'enjoy' with the kids? Shouldn't these guys know better?
Are there penalties for 'conduct unbecoming for an old guy'?
The penalty should be a 10 minute one, we all know these guys hold a grudge much longer, the cantankerous old *******s....

 

[Baca Loco]

I don't see the connection. Some people are lazy about paying entry fees.

8 spots is plenty. More than 8 and the people with more players don't have to drive themselves as close to death as the teams with fewer players.

You of all people should be familiar with the propensity of the vocal minority to show up on forums.

I am simply of the opinion that there is a much larger potential pool of players in the age group who want to play and have the means to play but both the fact the PSP chose Xball for them and some silly restrictions is inhibiting the category's development. Same, in fact, goes with D3 where theoretically the idea is to introduce new players to the game yet the PSP place more restrictions on the numbers allowed than the higher divisions. At D3 if you are correct the rosters will self-correct but denying teams and players the option seems pointless given the other roster rules in force.

Given the other rules on rosters I'm less than inspired by the reasoning on offer.

Indeed, a vocal minority is all you ever get on the forums but match that vocal minority--those who cared enough to even bother to post--with the results to date and while hardly statistically conclusive I will wager now the result over the season won't improve. And it isn't from lack of potential players. I know enough guys to fill 3 or 4 rosters of Masters play and some who did compete at WC but aren't likely to be back.

Besides, I'd also be willing to bet it was a vocal minority who pushed for Masters Xball too.

Not true in practice. If you expand the roster from 10 people to 15 people, the 5 additional people are the players who are going to barely play at all. If a team is sponsored so the players don't pay, then this works for the team. But if the team is NOT sponsored and the per-player cost matters, adding 5 roster spots only HURTS that team, because:

1) They won't be able to get 5 more players to pay entry fees to barely play at all.
2) The teams that are sponsored will.

Setting aside for a moment that it was a bad argument for D3 in the first place, D2 and D1 teams are more likely to be sponsored. For sponsored teams, the financial considerations are how much it costs to get the whole team there - in which case the FEWER players you have, the better. You're already paying the entry fee and for paint - more bodies is just more plane tickets, hotel rooms and rental cars.

And you can see that in the roster sizes - most D2 teams have 10-12 players, EVEN THOUGH they COULD have 15. D1 teams are more likely to carry 15 players, but D1 teams also play full-on XBall and D2/D3 play XLite.

You still haven't offered a decent reason for the large swings in allowed rosters. It seems to me that the only reason you would restrict any rosters is for competitive balance and as you ably demonstrate that matters far more the higher up the divisions one goes so it still seems to me that across the board the rules are poorly conceived.

Which is another point - if 15 is good enough for D1/NXL XBall, ain't 11 good enough for XBall Lite?

The argument only works if it's consistent and currently the rules aren't. If however the rules were amended to make that distinction it would make considerably more sense.