Recognition as a 'sport'

[Russell Smith]

Can anyone provide an update on where 'we' are in terms of having Paintball officially recognised as a sport by the relevant authorities.

I contacted the Sports Council here in Northern Ireland and was told that a bid for recognition in UK was rejected several years ago, but that '2' applications had now been received.
Unfortunately the fact that 2 applications have been received complicates the matter, since recognition generally requiores a single, unified governing body - and separate applications from 2 bodies is not to be welcomed.

can anyone shed some light on this matter?

Cheers

Dougal

The Paintball Association have made a application to the sports council with the full support of the ukpsf.
The other party to apply is Delta Force who as we view it (and what we have been told by the guy we speak to at the sports council) can not meet the required criteria but because they have made an application it will be a spoiler unless the Sports council dismiss it (if a application meets none of the required criteria they are allowed to do that) we will find out in February.
Delta force have made a claim that they have nearly a quarter of a million members - because every one of their customers is made a member. We hope because of that very fact and also because the UKPSF have gave the PA application their full backing it will stand us in good stead.
If not we will have to do it again next year and at that point they will make the requirements harder to meet which we don't mind because we have done everything as they want it but the Delta Force organisation seem to have an axe to grind with the ukpsf.


Russ

 

[Robbo]

Seems to me that if these people are the only people endeavoring to steer the paintball ship into Sports Council acceptance, then we are in real trouble, and I mean real trouble.

You have to ask the question, why do these people strive for acceptance?
I mean, why bother?
Altruism?
Yeah right, I'm afraid that skipped town a long time ago.

The reason people are going for this is to put themselves into positions of power (ignoring the inevitable rhetoric you might hear to the contrary)because if you are the people who formalize paintball in terms of getting it recognized, then you are the people who can represent us.
If you represent us, then you have power, and with that power comes money.
No disrespect here but I wouldn't trust DF as fas as I could throw Steve Bull, that's just my opinion but then again, I don't really trust anybody to do that job at the moment.

It also seems to me that anybody accomplishing this (getting paintball recognized) will then have to deal with the Millennium when it comes to world federations, it most certainly plonks a few aces in the hands of the people who are successful in getting paintball accepted but the practicalities of alignment (or union) are then fraught with egos, self interest and the inevitable struggle for power.

It seems ironic that the Millennium are the powerhouses of the game in Europe and at present they are not that pro-active in trying to be the guys who get us recognized in the resepctive countries.
Maybe that's something that needs some strategic consideration.
If I were them, I would most certainly be throwing my hat in because imagine this, A new world order begins to emerge from the US whereby a unified circuit (NPPL and PSP / NXL) becomes the bedrock for world paintball and it's not 'if' this happens, it's 'when'.

The Millennium will then necessarily have to align with this new world order but if other people over here are in control of our sport in terms of formal recognition and representation, it severely undermines the control the Millennium has.

I believe this is something the Millennium guys haven't really thought through, it just seems ironic that some others have and are working in the background to gain that control.
Makes interesting times ahead though but let's face it, when I look at the shenanigans that goes on and just who does what, it all smacks of a bunch of amateurs playing in a game that is beyond them.
Problem is, we got nobody else to play this game out and so we leave the fate of domestic and European paintball in their hands ....... excuse me while I have to laugh a little at that prospect.
Kinda unsettling really

 

[Russell Smith]

It seems ironic that the Millennium are the powerhouses of the game in Europe and at present they are not that pro-active in trying to be the guys who get us recognized in the resepctive countries.
Maybe that's something that needs some strategic consideration.

The Millennium will then necessarily have to align with this new world order but if other people over here are in control of our sport in terms of formal recognition and representation, it severely undermines the control the Millennium has.

I believe this is something the Millennium guys haven't really thought through, it just seems ironic that some others have and are working in the background to gain that control.
Kinda unsettling really

The Millennium series could not meet the requirements for Sports Council recognition.
And they also know if they want to carry on as they are nothing will change, a recognised body would not have the right to stop them running any commercial events.

I think you have spent to much time with people who are playing other agendas, time will tell Pete.
We don't intend to get into a pissing contest with anyone so it wont happen, but things I hope will change - for the better.
Before people post inane and ill-informed comments they should perhaps check what sort of power a governing body really has and not what people think they have.
Because of the DF guys I think it will spoil this years application, not a problem, we never expected to get it until we have five years behind us.


Russ

 

[Robbo]

The Millennium series could not meet the requirements for Sports Council recognition.
And they also know if they want to carry on as they are nothing will change, a recognised body would not have the right to stop them running any commercial events.

I never said or implied it could mate, but it might have to sanction them.....and you know full well the implications of that !

I think you have spent to much time with people who are playing other agendas, time will tell Pete.
We don't intend to get into a pissing contest with anyone so it wont happen, but things I hope will change - for the better.
Before people post inane and ill-informed comments they should perhaps check what sort of power a governing body really has and not what people think they have.

I don't honestly think you are correct regarding the time I have spent with agenda clad people, I seek my own counsel in such matters and I judge situations using my own experience.
I'm not really sure if the 'inane and ill'-informed' charge was directed at me, if it was, I would hope my posts do not come across as that because I don't think I am ill-informed and my posts are most certainly not inane.
As for flagging up the disparity between what some people (I presume you mean me here) believe the power governing authorities can wield and what they can actually wield, well, let's just explore that Russ.
Would you like to enlighten me on the limitations such a governing body would have?

Because of the DF guys I think it will spoil this years application, not a problem, we never expected to get it until we have five years behind us.
Russ

I'm not really sure why DF seems to have thrown a spanner in the works with what you are trying to do, maybe you could explain that for me please.
The prospect of DF gaining recognition and becoming our formal representatives is a gloomy one and I believe one that should be resisted.
Unfortunately, it looks as though we could be defaulting to supporting a 'lesser of evils' here (no disrespect intended Russ) because I just don't trust anyone to professionally and fairly represent us as a sport, as participants (players and teams) and as an industry.

 

[Russell Smith]

I never said or implied it could mate, but it might have to sanction them.....and you know full well the implications of that !


I'm not really sure if the 'inane and ill'-informed' charge was directed at me, if it was, I would hope my posts do not come across as that because I don't think I am ill-informed and my posts are most certainly not inane.



As for flagging up the disparity between what some people (I presume you mean me here) believe the power governing authorities can wield and what they can actually wield, well, let's just explore that Russ.
Would you like to enlighten me on the limitations such a governing body would have?





I'm not really sure why DF seems to have thrown a spanner in the works with what you are trying to do, maybe you could explain that for me please.
The prospect of DF gaining recognition and becoming our formal representatives is a gloomy one and I believe one that should be resisted.
Unfortunately, it looks as though we could be defaulting to supporting a 'lesser of evils' here (no disrespect intended Russ) because I just don't trust anyone to professionally and fairly represent us as a sport, as participants (players and teams) and as an industry.

The recognised body would have no say at all on any commercial event and because it would be that no sanctioning would be required.

It wasn't and they are not

As for the limitations of the governing body, well how long is a piece of string.
Any governing body is only as good as the committee who run it, if the PA get approval we will immediately bring on board elected individuals who will approve and ratify all ideas/rule changes and they will have the ultimate control and that is the way it must be because like you we are also aware of the potential "power" problems and will make sure they don't happen.
We do have very clear guidelines on what a body is expected and indeed allowed to do.
For instance, nobody could be told they can not run events anymore, but if they would like to attract any funding the body has access to they would have to do the events under agreed guidelines


The DF company have a problem with the UKPSF and have had words on a few occasions with Steve Bull.
Steve has been nothing but honourable in all dealing with them and if he wanted to give them some ****e I assure you he could tell you some stuff that would get your blood boiling but Steve being Steve is looking at the bigger picture and wants what is best for paintball.
I believe their application is something to do with that and also the fact that they think there is an untapped revenue stream.
The other possibility is they want to do something good......


Russ

 

[Robbo]

The other possibility is they want to do something good......
Russ

Oh my Mr Smith, you are becoming as cynical as me

 

[Robbo]

If DF managed to gain any sort of foothold in terms of potentially representing us, it would have to be resisted at all costs.
No disrespect intended toward Gups but she is just a spokesperson and defends them to the hilt but DF do not in any way make the right noises or act appropriately when it comes to playing the 'professional' game of politics and / or business.
They would need some serious friends to be successful and basically, they ain't got them.
You need media support if you got any real chance and I'm afraid I am not one of their fans and I guess you ain't either which makes it hard for them.
They could of course go it alone which seems to be their default strategy and they could potentially pull it off but I doubt it would actually happen because too many potential opponents would be woken from their slumber if they got too close.
Let's hope that doesn't happen.


Let's face it Russ, where there's money, power follows closely by and if anybody finally lays hold of this formal acceptance of our sport, they then control the money flow which of course is potentially huge.
I don't think people out there realize the sort of money we are talking about here with things such as grants and awards etc from government and lottery etc...
Isn't this what it's all about Russ?

 

[Dazdread]

As I understand it, in 2006 direct support for sports was to be reduced to ten core sports and not distributed across all approved sports as in past years.

The only avenue left for sports would be through individual grants which are restricted to the "Approved" list. Approval would therefore mean that individual teams would potentially have access to monies in order to develop home grounds and improve accessability to the sport.

The approval process would no doubt insist on a constitution that allows for open elections of committee/council members which should then grant a certain non-partisan element to the decision making process.

Now the reality !!!

 

[Raffles]

I wonder what would happen if an application for sup'airball (or some other name) - and not paintball - was made to the SC?

In other words, keep the tourney and rec sides seperate. Then DF could really do nothing about the tournament side and vice versa.

Didn't this happen with horse riding? AFAIK they had different names for different areas of their sport - eg. racing, show jumping, trials, trotting, dressage etc. All different sports in their own rights.

Maybe the only way to get real interest from anybody - not just the SC - is to distance tournament paintball from recreational paintball - as the latter is a hobby (as the name implies).

Once this new 'sport' is formed - then re-integrate.

I've no idea if this is possible - just chucking my 3p in.

 

[Russell Smith]

I don't think people out there realize the sort of money we are talking about here with things such as grants and awards etc from government and lottery etc...
Isn't this what it's all about Russ?

I wish the potential to attract funding was so simple, under the regulations for sports council recognition no money is available or will be made available for new sports funding from the government so we would have to source it like anyone else.
Not sure what situation is with the Lottery I would expect an application would be made if it was possible but any funding would have so many checks on it nobody would be able to buy a new villa
I know a few other sources that may help put some cash in the pot though.
Lets me make it clear I take no offence at what you could be inferring and I also understand if you thought we was in this for a major payout sometime in the future you would say it, but they are valid questions and if people are not thinking them.... well they should because I would if some other people was doing it.
I would fully expect we would also have a treasurer from the paintball community who others would trust to blow the whistle on any unscrupulous goings on if they occurred.

Russ

is there in case anyone thinks I really do want the villa........