woodland???

[Shadlad]

Lets play ball !! be it air or woods !! If you enjoy it great !! Who cares what form you play as long as you enjoy it. I played air and did like it but because of back injury and putting weight on and not being able to fire a gun fast woods suit me more these days. But if I a good back again and fast fingers i'd play both !

 

[Liz]

Please don't start arguing that woodland paintball is a sport- I'd like to continue going to the woods and having a relaxed day of fun play, not turn up and be lambasted because my not doing enough pressups and snapshooting drills between games is letting the side down and it's my fault UK teams can't win NPPL events.

Olly - you of all people I would have thought could tell the difference between recreational woodsball (walk ons, big games and the like), and tournament woodsball. There can be a world of difference between them

 

[Buddha 3]

Wow, that's a mighty high horse you're sitting on...

does it really matter at the end of the day

all these people going im in the 10%

its like saying "my dads better than your dad" or "my girlfriend swallows"
its not a competition.
who gives a ****
if you really like playing and you are aiming to take it to whatever level who the hell has the right to lambast people into feeling like they have to justify themselves.

life isnt black and white. there isnt committed and uncommitted. the palate isnt limited to two tones. there are many shades of grey. i for one am fcuking bored of seeing various alumni of the scene giving people ultimatums like the one above. who is the one paying out to play? to travel? to train and compete? answer - the invidual.

now, unless said individuals are playing for *your* team and you are asking them to make commitments, then you have no real right to make out that they are wasting there time. thats how i read a lot of this drivel. frankly i find it wholly patronising and unneeded.

the individuals owe said "alumnis of the scene" absolutely zero.
i find the kinda talk i read frequently on these forums to be verging on highly derogatory and negative, not least counter productive.

makes me wanna "hang up my cleats" as they say.

just my thoughts.

Is this a case of if the shoe fits?

If you read back some of my posts on this subject, you'll find that I have no problem with people playing whatever type of paintball they like. I believe there is a time and place for all different ways paintball can be played.

If people want to have the occasional bash up in the woods with a handfull of mates, fine.
If people want to play big games, great.
If people want to play the occasional tournament just for the heck of it, cool.
If people want to be the best they can be at paintball, that's fine too.

I really don't care what each individual wants to put into the sport. That's each individual's choice and prerogative.

However, if people are gonna post on a forum that they are very serious about this and all that hooplah, then I will ask them what team they play for and how often they train. That's not asking them to "justify themselves" to me, that's me wanting to know what people consider to be dedicated. At the same time that's me holding up a mirror to some people and saying "sorry mate, just spending a lot of time online, talking about paintball, ain't the same as going out there and doing it."

The problem is that because paintball is still a relatively young and obscure sport, there are only a limited number of people that know what a real training should look like, what sort of drills one should do and so on. Is it so wrong to want to point people towards these few?

Another problem I see, and of which you seem to be a part, is what I like to call the backslapping crowd. The people that seem to be in a yay-paintball state of mind, where everybody that plays is your friend and nobody should be critical of the things they see, lest they spoil the happy atmosphere.

Well, I'm sorry to ruin the big, giant back slapping session, but I will call things like I see them, and I will ask questions to get the info that I need. I know it can be frustrating at times to hear a bunch of cynics spout their crap (believe me, I know), but at the same time you should be thankful that we exist. Because without people like those cynics, the people that are willing to go balls to the walls, would not know where to go and what state their game is in.

As far as a few things in your post that bothered me, that ultimatum crap was a bit weird.... I haven't given any ultimatums. I asked something. If you can't tell the difference, or if you can't deal with people asking questions that might just make you rethink some things, you will have a tough life ahead of you, I can promise you that.
And as far as that spiel about commitments and/or wasting time goes, that's just you reading things into other people's statements. I know all about commitments. I'm involved in a sport where the team I play for has more than 60 guys on the roster, each with a differing level of commitment. You think I have no life outside these forums? FYI, I have a girlfriend to keep happy, a daughter to raise, a dog to walk, several hobbies and my own company. So tust me when I say that I know about the balancing act between sports and the rest of your life. Like I said, I'm happy with any amount of time that people are willing to put into this game. I just can't stand the crowd that keeps calling themselves athletes, while they train once a month or bimonthly, while they could be training more but rather be drunk in the pub all the other weekends.... I'm sure you agree these people do not deserve the title athlete. I just can't stand that BS, particularly when these very same people blame everybody and everything but themselves when they've lost a game.

I'm all for people deciding for themselves how much time they want to put into this. Just be honest with yourself. You want to play for fun, with no hassle? That's cool, just be honest about it. I and I'm sure others with me, will respect you for that. You want to be the best at this game? Cool, expect to be criticised though, as that's where you will find improvement. And like you said, there are plenty of shades in between those two, and they all have their place.

My intentions are not to make people depressed, so if I did, sorry about that. But at the same time I refuse to just be silent just because it'll spoil the happy happy joy joy atmosphere. I will always be critical and although I am a cynic by nature, I will always TRY to be constructive in my criticism. If what I say does not apply to you, just ignore it, if it does, hopefully it'll help you.

Again, I have no problem with any type of paintball, played for whatever motivation. As long as you are honest to yourself and to me, I will always support your efforts, at the very least I'll just be happy you're having fun playing paintball. So on that note, hopefully my rantings may not seem so negative anymore and we can end this year on a good foot.

Peace.

 

[Lovetone]

Is this a case of if the shoe fits?

If you read back some of my posts on this subject, you'll find that I have no problem with people playing whatever type of paintball they like. I believe there is a time and place for all different ways paintball can be played.

If people want to have the occasional bash up in the woods with a handfull of mates, fine.
If people want to play big games, great.
If people want to play the occasional tournament just for the heck of it, cool.
If people want to be the best they can be at paintball, that's fine too.

I really don't care what each individual wants to put into the sport. That's each individual's choice and prerogative.

However, if people are gonna post on a forum that they are very serious about this and all that hooplah, then I will ask them what team they play for and how often they train. That's not asking them to "justify themselves" to me, that's me wanting to know what people consider to be dedicated. At the same time that's me holding up a mirror to some people and saying "sorry mate, just spending a lot of time online, talking about paintball, ain't the same as going out there and doing it."

The problem is that because paintball is still a relatively young and obscure sport, there are only a limited number of people that know what a real training should look like, what sort of drills one should do and so on. Is it so wrong to want to point people towards these few?

Another problem I see, and of which you seem to be a part, is what I like to call the backslapping crowd. The people that seem to be in a yay-paintball state of mind, where everybody that plays is your friend and nobody should be critical of the things they see, lest they spoil the happy atmosphere.

Well, I'm sorry to ruin the big, giant back slapping session, but I will call things like I see them, and I will ask questions to get the info that I need. I know it can be frustrating at times to hear a bunch of cynics spout their crap (believe me, I know), but at the same time you should be thankful that we exist. Because without people like those cynics, the people that are willing to go balls to the walls, would not know where to go and what state their game is in.

As far as a few things in your post that bothered me, that ultimatum crap was a bit weird.... I haven't given any ultimatums. I asked something. If you can't tell the difference, or if you can't deal with people asking questions that might just make you rethink some things, you will have a tough life ahead of you, I can promise you that.
And as far as that spiel about commitments and/or wasting time goes, that's just you reading things into other people's statements. I know all about commitments. I'm involved in a sport where the team I play for has more than 60 guys on the roster, each with a differing level of commitment. You think I have no life outside these forums? FYI, I have a girlfriend to keep happy, a daughter to raise, a dog to walk, several hobbies and my own company. So tust me when I say that I know about the balancing act between sports and the rest of your life. Like I said, I'm happy with any amount of time that people are willing to put into this game. I just can't stand the crowd that keeps calling themselves athletes, while they train once a month or bimonthly, while they could be training more but rather be drunk in the pub all the other weekends.... I'm sure you agree these people do not deserve the title athlete. I just can't stand that BS, particularly when these very same people blame everybody and everything but themselves when they've lost a game.

I'm all for people deciding for themselves how much time they want to put into this. Just be honest with yourself. You want to play for fun, with no hassle? That's cool, just be honest about it. I and I'm sure others with me, will respect you for that. You want to be the best at this game? Cool, expect to be criticised though, as that's where you will find improvement. And like you said, there are plenty of shades in between those two, and they all have their place.

My intentions are not to make people depressed, so if I did, sorry about that. But at the same time I refuse to just be silent just because it'll spoil the happy happy joy joy atmosphere. I will always be critical and although I am a cynic by nature, I will always TRY to be constructive in my criticism. If what I say does not apply to you, just ignore it, if it does, hopefully it'll help you.

Again, I have no problem with any type of paintball, played for whatever motivation. As long as you are honest to yourself and to me, I will always support your efforts, at the very least I'll just be happy you're having fun playing paintball. So on that note, hopefully my rantings may not seem so negative anymore and we can end this year on a good foot.

Peace.

Perhaps I should point out that although my post was targetted at you for the fact I quoted your post - it is also aimed at all the other people on this forum who in my eyes are being negative in (nearly) everything I seem to read by them. thats why i didnt write "you" in the body of my text, I used the term alumni to indicate the group of people I perceive who have a lot of knowledge on the boards but only seem to go about spreading this knowledge in a downbeat fashion - entirely my opinion of course, thats just how I read it. So, I will apoligise for only pointing this at yourself.

Without addressing each of the points in your post I will just go through a couple of bits I guess.

First up - im not really in this overtly backslapping crowd. I never claim to be an athlete and I think the only time I've got on any bandwagon was when the team I played for came 2nd at div 3 CC cos we were all happy to have at least done something good to end the season.

I too have a life, to the vast extent paintball is a hobby to me; however, I do input more into it than some people, and, of course, a lot less than some other people - namely your hallowed adonis' across the atlantic, with their uber impressive abilities to drive 6 hours to train etc. It is a sport I play with friends, and no I dont work my ass into the ground to train at it. I play once a week tops, and for the vast part of last year, i played every weekend training or at the PA/fight club/campaign and the masters at the start of the season.

With regards to the ultimatums thing, I think I was trying to say that there has been a lot of talk about British teams always being ****, no competition for anyone: ergo - do this or youll always be ****. That kinda talk just makes me think - whats the damn point in even trying to do anything, if the majority of informed minds think its a waste of time and that all you are doing is coming to nothing. all the time money and taking time out from the things you said like jobs / gf and in my case, my band, to do this - is seemingly all for nothing in the "grand scheme" of "britball". plus, I think its disrespectful to the teams in the UK that do actually try and get better. MY prime example is Notorious. Nuff said.

going off on a tangent - i remember the old CC thread, and the bashing that went on there along this lines of "what the fck, so few brit teams, pathertic, why arent you playing milleniums, its on your doorstep". well heres some news, i played it , and our team did quite well, but sh1t me if we DIDNT have a good time. I thought it was pretty bobbins. I had much more fun playing the PA - something which alumni such as robbo would scoff at no doubt, however we have won that event this year (hustlers in div3) and i feel much more a sense of acheivement from that then i did spending £xxx to play in london, let alone another MS event which I felt was crap to spectate, didnt like sitting around all day to play games, just ended up warming down and cost an awful lot in anyones book.

now - people are meant to aspire to playing that cos "its the best thing to play and if british teams do well it looks good". thats the impression i get - maybe im just " reading things into other people's statements". however - who does it look good for? certainly didnt look good to my bank manager, or to the morale of the team at the event. now, i dunno if we just plucked a lemon off the tree, or if others felt the same way, or the stars werent alligned or WHATEVER but this was hyped up to be THE thing to play and I dont think it was that great at all. if thats the future of brit ball im not suprised people are apathetic towards it.

I dont really know if any of this has addressed any points.
I think your post made a lot of sense and I respect you making it in reply and pointing out the details for me. I too am a massive cynic - hey, a pessimist is never disappointed and all that...BUT I still think, in a roundabout way, and even though only 2 people backed me up, that there is a general feeling around this community that certain advice, no matter how well intended, isnt reaching the reader in the right way.

Thats probably more the point that should be taken from my posts here.

Cheers
Ian

 

[Dskize]

because of my general laziness I cant be arsed to write anything half as long as Ian but had to confirm that I agree with him,I'm also sick of hearing Mods consistent sarcasm and general putting down of UK ball all the time .I fail to see how it helps ..im very aware it needs to happen sometimes but its hardly 'cool' to be a constant cynic.

It also strikes me that if UK ball is so apathetic, and some of you guys have been around since the start and are now in positions of power and influence in the industry ,sport,media, whatever ,your the guys who have progressed it to where it is today..

 

[Baca Loco]

Aight, Kids, time for a bit of moderating--not nearly as much fun as banning peeps but you take the bad with the good.

A large measure of this "failure to communicate" is purely semantic. (Which is ironic...) What I mean is, I think, what certain things mean to some of you is not what those same words may mean some others of you. I'll explain.

As I see it what we've got here is one point of view that frames the beginning of "success" as competing on the world stage without embarrassing themselves and we have another point of view that considers "success" being the best one can be within the limitations of living life and enjoying the game. For the vast majority these are two totally--and I mean totally--different things. The problem arises in that both sides use the same sorts of language to describe themselves and their efforts. (This is why guys like Pete and Jay get frustrated and/or read some of the stuff here as wildly unrealistic or foolish and where others of you in return see perpetual negativity.)

The easy answer is to simply recognize which camp you belong to -- if either one, as both are of a competitive nature, and move on. If you have a sincere desire to be the best regardless then pay attention. If you don't then don't sweat it. I think another aspect to this is some peeps taking it personally and feeling like their efforts are being derided when I don't believe that to be the intention at all.

Lastly there is an element here of talking the talk without even pretending to walk the walk but that's pretty normal in my book. In a forum setting like this you have all sorts--even those woodlands characters -- and everybody talks about playing the game in whatever the current fashion happens to be. I don't think that makes some hypocrits or others wannabes or can only be uttered authentically by the elites but it does lead to some misunderstandings (and ruffled feathers now and again.)

So lighten up, boys and girls.

 

[Buddha 3]

Good post Ian.

Perhaps I should point out that although my post was targetted at you for the fact I quoted your post - it is also aimed at all the other people on this forum who in my eyes are being negative in (nearly) everything I seem to read by them. thats why i didnt write "you" in the body of my text, I used the term alumni to indicate the group of people I perceive who have a lot of knowledge on the boards but only seem to go about spreading this knowledge in a downbeat fashion - entirely my opinion of course, thats just how I read it. So, I will apoligise for only pointing this at yourself.

Without addressing each of the points in your post I will just go through a couple of bits I guess.

1)First up - im not really in this overtly backslapping crowd. I never claim to be an athlete and I think the only time I've got on any bandwagon was when the team I played for came 2nd at div 3 CC cos we were all happy to have at least done something good to end the season.

2)I too have a life, to the vast extent paintball is a hobby to me; however, I do input more into it than some people, and, of course, a lot less than some other people - namely your hallowed adonis' across the atlantic, with their uber impressive abilities to drive 6 hours to train etc. It is a sport I play with friends, and no I dont work my ass into the ground to train at it. I play once a week tops, and for the vast part of last year, i played every weekend training or at the PA/fight club/campaign and the masters at the start of the season.

3)With regards to the ultimatums thing, I think I was trying to say that there has been a lot of talk about British teams always being ****, no competition for anyone: ergo - do this or youll always be ****. That kinda talk just makes me think - whats the damn point in even trying to do anything, if the majority of informed minds think its a waste of time and that all you are doing is coming to nothing. all the time money and taking time out from the things you said like jobs / gf and in my case, my band, to do this - is seemingly all for nothing in the "grand scheme" of "britball". plus, I think its disrespectful to the teams in the UK that do actually try and get better. MY prime example is Notorious. Nuff said.

4)going off on a tangent - i remember the old CC thread, and the bashing that went on there along this lines of "what the fck, so few brit teams, pathertic, why arent you playing milleniums, its on your doorstep". well heres some news, i played it , and our team did quite well, but sh1t me if we DIDNT have a good time. I thought it was pretty bobbins. I had much more fun playing the PA - something which alumni such as robbo would scoff at no doubt, however we have won that event this year (hustlers in div3) and i feel much more a sense of acheivement from that then i did spending £xxx to play in london, let alone another MS event which I felt was crap to spectate, didnt like sitting around all day to play games, just ended up warming down and cost an awful lot in anyones book.

now - people are meant to aspire to playing that cos "its the best thing to play and if british teams do well it looks good". thats the impression i get - maybe im just " reading things into other people's statements". however - who does it look good for? certainly didnt look good to my bank manager, or to the morale of the team at the event. now, i dunno if we just plucked a lemon off the tree, or if others felt the same way, or the stars werent alligned or WHATEVER but this was hyped up to be THE thing to play and I dont think it was that great at all. if thats the future of brit ball im not suprised people are apathetic towards it.

I dont really know if any of this has addressed any points.
I think your post made a lot of sense and I respect you making it in reply and pointing out the details for me. I too am a massive cynic - hey, a pessimist is never disappointed and all that...BUT I still think, in a roundabout way, and even though only 2 people backed me up, that there is a general feeling around this community that certain advice, no matter how well intended, isnt reaching the reader in the right way.

Thats probably more the point that should be taken from my posts here.

Cheers
Ian

1) That's a pretty decent result if you play hardly any MS events. Congrats on that.

2) That is actually a good description of what I mean. You've decided that you enjoy paintball and want to keep playing it sort of seriously, hence the playing/training once a week, but it's not the most important thing in your life. Am I right in saying that you would treat any other sport the same?
So you are happy if you do well and improve, but the fun factor is the most important factor to you. What's most important is that you have been honest with yourself and as such enjoy playing.

3) I think you may have misunderstood things a little then. I doubt anybody feels that Brit ball will always be ****, but at the moment there is certainly room for improvement. If people are happy that things are the way they are (for their team), that's fine, you don't need to do anything. But there are people out there that are very competitive and who want to see their country sweep all before them. If you want that, that's fine too, but you should then do something about that. Hope that makes sense.

4) Interesting point... Could be a whole new topic that. But I do feel that if you look at the amount of teams a country has and the percentage of those teams that enters the big leagues is an indication of the state of the game in that country.

Getting two people to agree with you is a lot when you are arguing (if we could call it that) with a mod... It's a shame, but many people are cyber-scared of us it seems.

You have raised some good points and make a lot of sense, I hope I do to. I think that in the end we are more in agreement then we first thought, just that we approached from different angles.

 

[Mort]

I'm in the 90%

 

[Lovetone]

1) That's a pretty decent result if you play hardly any MS events. Congrats on that.

2) That is actually a good description of what I mean. You've decided that you enjoy paintball and want to keep playing it sort of seriously, hence the playing/training once a week, but it's not the most important thing in your life. Am I right in saying that you would treat any other sport the same?
So you are happy if you do well and improve, but the fun factor is the most important factor to you. What's most important is that you have been honest with yourself and as such enjoy playing.

3) I think you may have misunderstood things a little then. I doubt anybody feels that Brit ball will always be ****, but at the moment there is certainly room for improvement. If people are happy that things are the way they are (for their team), that's fine, you don't need to do anything. But there are people out there that are very competitive and who want to see their country sweep all before them. If you want that, that's fine too, but you should then do something about that. Hope that makes sense.

4) Interesting point... Could be a whole new topic that. But I do feel that if you look at the amount of teams a country has and the percentage of those teams that enters the big leagues is an indication of the state of the game in that country.

Getting two people to agree with you is a lot when you are arguing (if we could call it that) with a mod... It's a shame, but many people are cyber-scared of us it seems.

You have raised some good points and make a lot of sense, I hope I do to. I think that in the end we are more in agreement then we first thought, just that we approached from different angles.

Thanks for that I appreciate it.
I am glad that I wasnt barking up (completely) the wrong tree.
I'd say that we are in more agreement now, and the post above by your colleague also makes some good points. Now that the knowledge is in place I can take away the right message from what is - as pointed out - a semantics mine-field at the best of times.

wrt:
1) this was my first MS event and similarly for about half of the team i think. or at least, they had only played saturday the last CC in 2005.

2) yeah it probably hurts some people to say it, but my music is my main passion in life. if i had to pick, id stick with that. but that doesnt detract from me playing paintball, its just a balance, much the same with anything in life.

3) yeah that makes sense. again i think perhaps some posts come across like generalisations, and often people can get caught up in some negativity. there were some big positives this season, such as Kellys getting pro (finally, and well deserved) and NK coming out of nowhere to destroy M5 so massive kudos to both camps there.

4) Again, I agree that the representation of countries is indicative of the "state" (participation? interest? desire to win 'big events'?) of a sport HOWEVER its not right for everyone and what I was trying to say is even teams that CAN compete dont always have a great time. just cos its the millennium doesnt mean its the 'best' thing to play - the only guarantees are some of the "best" competition at your given level which I wont dispute.

Phew! Essay complete!

Good debate there. Im glad I risked a ban by speaking my mind.

Ian

 

[Lovetone]

A large measure of this "failure to communicate" is purely semantic. (Which is ironic...) What I mean is, I think, what certain things mean to some of you is not what those same words may mean some others of you. .

Well stated, and I think thats what I was aiming at conveying at the end of my post a few back. I hope a few people who were maybe feeling a bit like myself read these posts and take something from it, especially when it comes to reading text which can be taken from various angles.

Peace
Ian