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Robbo

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Jul 5, 2001
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Quite a few places DO cater for walk on's but DONT promote the fact that they exist. This is what I think we have to change..

Pete, please don't take this the wrong way, but I think in this instance your level of experience may not always help... Let me try to explain.. You've been in the world of paintball for a long while and you've played tournaments as long as they've existed. You made the step out of the woods and onto the tourney field as part of the evolution of tournament level paintball. If we run a delta force style promo event focussing on sup air it will make people *aware* of tourney ball, however I dont think many people would step up to play it. People would think "wow, cool" but also be intimidated by it. The step up from rental to Sup Air is huge without a walk on (even a woodsball walk on, which is the path I have taken) somewhere in the middle. Because you've been involved in it pretty much from the start, you've never had to make the step up from rental to where we are now. This is why I think our efforts need to look at promoting walk ons etc to generate more regular players than we have this could be coupled with the kind of promotion you are talking about. But then atleast if someone is interested they should also realise that there is a middle step, they dont have to make the leap in one bound.
Andy, I hope I never take intelligent posts the 'wrong way', only agenda-ridden ones, which of course yours is not.

To answer your question :- I have never believed the natural evolution of tourney players (woodsball to walk-on to tourney) is without merit.
As things stand, I would think this process accounts for the vast majority of our tourney demographic.
What I am actually suggesting is that tourney ball is intrinsically more attractive to the average young male than woodsball.
Now, I don't just like stating my opinion that isn't in some way substantiated and I would draw upon the 'German' phenomena that I have mentioned here many times before to do just that.
Germany has no recball, it's illegal over there and they are forced to market paintball along tourney lines ...and here's the kicker...they have more teams in Germany than any other European country.
Think about this Andy because it's improatant, really important, because here is a country who boasts the largest number of teams but doesn't have the same evolutionary path as the rest of us in that they just go straight into tourney.


When i sat down and thought about what was going on over there, the penny dropped and I realized what we had to do.
I had long since believed tourney ball was sooooooooooooo much better than wannabee-Rambo ball but as you said, this may have been because I was always involved in tournaments from the first one over here in 1988 in Hatfield.
And so, when I begun to understand what was going down in Germany and considered its true relevance,a relevance that for some reason seem to have past most people, it didn't take much for me to start preaching the gospel according to tourney ball.
Andy, I take your point mate, but in this case I honestly don't think it invalidates what I am suggesting we do in terms of the direction we take when it comes to promoting paintball.
 

KitsuneAndy

Platinum Member
Andy, I hope I never take intelligent posts the 'wrong way', only agenda-ridden ones, which of course yours is not.

To answer your question :- I have never believed the natural evolution of tourney players (woodsball to walk-on to tourney) is without merit.
As things stand, I would think this process accounts for the vast majority of our tourney demographic.
What I am actually suggesting is that tourney ball is intrinsically more attractive to the average young male than woodsball.
Now, I don't just like stating my opinion that isn't in some way substantiated and I would draw upon the 'German' phenomena that I have mentioned here many times before to do just that.
Germany has no recball, it's illegal over there and they are forced to market paintball along tourney lines ...and here's the kicker...they have more teams in Germany than any other European country.
Think about this Andy because it's improatant, really important, because here is a country who boasts the largest number of teams but doesn't have the same evolutionary path as the rest of us in that they just go straight into tourney.


When i sat down and thought about what was going on over there, the penny dropped and I realized what we had to do.
I had long since believed tourney ball was sooooooooooooo much better than wannabee-Rambo ball but as you said, this may have been because I was always involved in tournaments from the first one over here in 1988 in Hatfield.
And so, when I begun to understand what was going down in Germany and considered its true relevance,a relevance that for some reason seem to have past most people, it didn't take much for me to start preaching the gospel according to tourney ball.
Andy, I take your point mate, but in this case I honestly don't think it invalidates what I am suggesting we do in terms of the direction we take when it comes to promoting paintball.

Pete,

I was never suggesting that it invalidates your point, just that something more is needed other than just promoting tourney ball. As I said, I believe a lot of people would like at the kind of video's that DerDer for example produce and think it looked fantastic. Of those people, some of them would want to get into it straight away and set about getting geared up and into entry level tournaments or whatever. But some people would be intimidated by the speed of play, the rate of fire of the guns etc and be deterred by the massive difference in play from rec ball.

However, with an approach that not only promoted the tourney aspect of paintball but also looked at the less competitive side of things like walk-on's, scenario etc it would also increase the number of players at base level. This would not only increase the amount of players that filter through from walk on to tourney but it would also increase the awareness of paintball via word of mouth as it would appeal to a higher number of people.

It means that the people who think "wow, sup air looks amazing, but it's too big a difference for me to take up" can take another route, start going to walk on's, get used to using higher ROF guns etc before making the journey to a tourney.
 

Cusack

Well-Known Member
Oct 17, 2005
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...Andy, you could just advertise an entry level tournemant for people who have never played before (at the same time) and they will know they are against same skilled people. Wimbledon doesn't make people scared of somehow getting slaughtered by Roger Federer, they know there's gonna be people of the same level if they get into it.. we need the easy 'rental tourney' kind of thing, don't we?

I agree with Robbo, we don't have to rely on walk-ons, it's just the entry path for the uneducated.

If for example, the UKPSF (or anyone) did an advertising campaign about sup'air paintball, which made it look cool, people would phone up whichever site was nearest to try to play it, right?

So what we need to do is promote it in some way, and have a nice entry for the newly brainwashed :D to try it out without commitment, like the tennis clubs have open days for new members...
 

KitsuneAndy

Platinum Member
...Andy, you could just advertise an entry level tournemant for people who have never played before (at the same time) and they will know they are against same skilled people. Wimbledon doesn't make people scared of somehow getting slaughtered by Roger Federer, they know there's gonna be people of the same level if they get into it.. we need the easy 'rental tourney' kind of thing, don't we?

I agree with Robbo, we don't have to rely on walk-ons, it's just the entry path for the uneducated.

If for example, the UKPSF (or anyone) did an advertising campaign about sup'air paintball, which made it look cool, people would phone up whichever site was nearest to try to play it, right?

So what we need to do is promote it in some way, and have a nice entry for the newly brainwashed :D to try it out without commitment, like the tennis clubs have open days for new members...
But, if we are looking at doing something *NOW* we can only work with what we've got. It can be very hard for some people to get to a site that has Sup Air, but most people can get to a woodland site that runs walkons. They're just not aware that walk on's exist.

I've never said that we *have* to rely on walk-on's, I'm just saying that it is part of the system and don't ignore it just because it's not Sup Air.

With regards to the entry level tournament.. I think it'd be very hard to do. You would have to find enough people in a small enough area that you could have teams made up entirely of rental players that could all get to the same site.

If a paintball site that also has a sup air field wanted to run one and advertise it to their normal customers, then I think it'd probably work. But I don't think it'd be very easy to organise on an independant level.
 

Cusack

Well-Known Member
Oct 17, 2005
1,155
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But, if we are looking at doing something *NOW* we can only work with what we've got. It can be very hard for some people to get to a site that has Sup Air, but most people can get to a woodland site that runs walkons. They're just not aware that walk on's exist.

I've never said that we *have* to rely on walk-on's, I'm just saying that it is part of the system and don't ignore it just because it's not Sup Air.

With regards to the entry level tournament.. I think it'd be very hard to do. You would have to find enough people in a small enough area that you could have teams made up entirely of rental players that could all get to the same site.

If a paintball site that also has a sup air field wanted to run one and advertise it to their normal customers, then I think it'd probably work. But I don't think it'd be very easy to organise on an independant level.

Sweet, so all the sites with Supair field (NPF for example uses the supair for rentals when it's not in normal use) advertise a small rental tournemant with a couple boxes of paint for prize, which wouldn't lose them custom because the people who progress to owning their own gun would use the field for practice, and the rest would either continue their rentality or get a gat and do walk-ons.

I thought most fields who have walk-ons have a sup'air as well, it's mainly Delta force that doesn't - and hence the need for outside promotion methods, they're sucking up our potential players and blindfolding them to us?
 

KitsuneAndy

Platinum Member
Sweet, so all the sites with Supair field (NPF for example uses the supair for rentals when it's not in normal use) advertise a small rental tournemant with a couple boxes of paint for prize, which wouldn't lose them custom because the people who progress to owning their own gun would use the field for practice, and the rest would either continue their rentality or get a gat and do walk-ons.

I thought most fields who have walk-ons have a sup'air as well, it's mainly Delta force that doesn't - and hence the need for outside promotion methods, they're sucking up our potential players and blindfolding them to us?
I dont know if a couple of boxes of paint would be a good incentive since those people don't own guns and so wouldnt need their own paint as yet. If it could be done in conjunction with someone like Dye/proto/Just/LiPS then you could give away gift vouchers to the winning team, which would encourage them to buy their own kit.

There are two local sites to where I live, both Skirmish, both woodland with no sup air field but a thriving walk-on. (40+ people on some months). Until Snetterton opened their sup air field there was no Sup Air anywhere near. While some people would/could travel far enough to get to sup air, new players probably wouldn't travel that far just to *try* something new.
 

Biscuit

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Mar 21, 2006
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the national paintball club has people like steve bull (ukpsf) ,jimmy frensham,(warped sport) niall squires(campaign) and ray cain (dragons lair) involved in it .it is organised walkons and 5 man wood land tournaments every month. some of the sites involved in this have sup air fields,this has been aimed mainly at punters to get them interested in the other faces of paintball and playing with thier own gear and progressing on up the ladder towards sup air if they choose to progress that far ,but also offering alternative paths ;eg scenarios.number of sites involved so far is 28 plus traders eg warped,fatbobs,pheonix and bz paintball this must be a step in the right direction in developing a larger playing base.:cool: