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Magued

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Tricky said:
The day we should all be worried about is when Jordan,Iran,Syria and Libia stop supplying the palestinians through the back channels and actually decide to have a pop at israel, the way things are going thats not too far away.
That would force the US/UK into a big dilemma, continue the war on terror?! and fight with israel, or leave them to face it alone.
Its long been said that ww3 would come out of the middle east and tbh its starting to ring true.
And to anyone that doesn't think events are interlinked, consider the fact that 80% of roadside bombs used in iraq, to kill allied servicemen/women, are supplied free to al queda, by syria.

wHOO Where did all that come from?

1. What exactly is those countrys supplying the Palestinans with? The last time I checked the had home made rockets and kalasjnikovs. Against Apaches, F16 and tanks etc.

2. So fight with Israel is the war against Terror? Or is it what we should belive?

3. I would consider the fact that 80% of the road bombs are Syrian made if you had any kind of proof! Consider also that a entire army supply of one of the biggest armys in the world was spread around after the Saddam regim felt..

4. Also consider that the one country that really wants Syria and Iran attacked is Israel and looking of how much pull they have in the current US administration it wouldnt be to wild to suspect that they are "pushing" for that direction.

I would really like to discuss why the Us media are censored to filter news about Israel. They showed it very clear in the film by comparing the same news broadcasted in BBC against US media.

Magued
 

Tricky

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I don't want to get into an arguement here because I actually believe that israel are well outta line,and support what you're saying, but:

1) Taken from wikpedia, Hardly home made, particular attention to who the russians supplied these rockets to:

Katyushas since World War II

Russian forces use BM-27 rocket launchers during the Second Chechen WarThe success and economy of multiple rocket launchers (MRL) have led them to continue to be developed. During the Cold War, the Soviet Union fielded several models of Katyushas, notably the BM-21 launchers fitting the stereotypical Katyusha mould, and the larger BM-27. Katyushas were exported to Afghanistan, Angola, Czechoslovakia, Egypt, East Germany, Hungary, Iran, North Korea, Poland, Syria, and Vietnam

2)No I do not, however israel are still claiming they are fighting HEZBOLAH, not the whole palestinian race, HEZBOLAH is classed as a terrorist organisation, and lets not forget that the latest so called peace was broken by the abduction of israeli soldiers by Hezbolah.

3)Will supply this when I confirm a couple of details, like model etc, it is a syrian made, IR activated road side bomb supplied in bulk to disidents and is fast replacing the unreliable homemade munition bombs, made from old artilery shells, the majority of these failed to detonate.

4)I agree completely, which leads us to the bigger picture I was talking about, it has been said that jordan,syria etc will never attack israel, Rubbish!. The further israel gets dragged into another guerilla war, the more vulnerable it will be to attack, history is littered with opportunists in war.
And yes the US is pushing the israeli agenda under the guise of the war on terror, but that will only last so long, the more of an all out war on the palestinian people this becomes, the less the US can push its agenda.


As for the media, again I agree completely, but this has been the same since media began, it will always show what its masters want it to show. The majority of germans didn't know what their own soldiers were doing in ww2 due to hitlers media machine, US soldiers being killed in somalia caused more uproar than the famine and murder that preceeded it, why? because the media made it so.
The media is a tool, no more no less, and in todays age of communication the news media is more powerfull than ever, but it will always be biased, you can not tell me that palestinian media shows the indiscriminate way its missiles are killing civilians,just in the same way israeli media will not show its missiles killing civilians.

Israel are in the wrong 100%, they are illegally occupying another country, they do this because they fear that country is a threat to their security, unfortunately they just don't see that they created that threat and are perpetuating it daily. Peace can be acheived, but it would take sacrifices I don't think people will make.



Magued said:
wHOO Where did all that come from?

1. What exactly is those countrys supplying the Palestinans with? The last time I checked the had home made rockets and kalasjnikovs. Against Apaches, F16 and tanks etc.

2. So fight with Israel is the war against Terror? Or is it what we should belive?

3. I would consider the fact that 80% of the road bombs are Syrian made if you had any kind of proof! Consider also that a entire army supply of one of the biggest armys in the world was spread around after the Saddam regim felt..

4. Also consider that the one country that really wants Syria and Iran attacked is Israel and looking of how much pull they have in the current US administration it wouldnt be to wild to suspect that they are "pushing" for that direction.

I would really like to discuss why the Us media are censored to filter news about Israel. They showed it very clear in the film by comparing the same news broadcasted in BBC against US media.

Magued
 

Magued

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Well I would say I agree with you in most analyses you do, but the media thing is more serious than you think. Take yourself for a example, you have insight of the situation but still manage to mix 2 different issues together. Now that something the media actuelly want us to do so we cant grip exactly what going on.

Let me give you some examples.

You said
"1) Taken from wikpedia, Hardly home made, particular attention to who the russians supplied these rockets to:

Katyushas since World War II

Russian forces use BM-27 rocket launchers during the Second Chechen WarThe success and economy of multiple rocket launchers (MRL) have led them to continue to be developed. During the Cold War, the Soviet Union fielded several models of Katyushas, notably the BM-21 launchers fitting the stereotypical Katyusha mould, and the larger BM-27. Katyushas were exported to Afghanistan, Angola, Czechoslovakia, Egypt, East Germany, Hungary, Iran, North Korea, Poland, Syria, and Vietnam"

It is correct that Iran equip the Hezbollah with those rockets, they dont however equip the Palestinains with them. Hezbollah is Lebanese fighting from Lebanon and the Palestinains live in the occupied territoris using home made weapons. Iran would have a extremly hard time getting anything to the Palestina as all borders are under Israel controll.

2. Same thing, you confuse the Hezbollah with Palestina

3.Well I cant say 100 % that they dont. But I have seen so many lies from the Us administration and the Israelis that I have become a bit sceptic about there claims.

4.This is a myth. Israel cant be overrun by anybody. Israel is one of the biggest military powers in the world. Israel have thousends of nuklear weapons that they would use without hesitation. Its the other way around, Israel is the one who attack and conquer. And nobody have ever occupied a inch of israeli soil. But its a good argument to use for them to keep taking more land from all the countrys surrounding them, in the name of security.

By mixing Hezbollah, Iran, Palestine, Islam, Hamas, Bin Laden etc etc they confuse people to think that all are the same. Its a strategi that works fine and people will stereo type all Arab/muslim issues with terror. By that increasing the wests support for Israel and the war on terror.

Magued
 

Tricky

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Mag,

Please re-read my posts mate, you will find that on many occasions I point out that it is Hezbollah, and not the palestinian people that israel are fighting, that is made clearer still by my points about the US justifying its war on terror as being against Hezbollah, even though innocent pallestinians are being killed.


But its a good argument to use for them to keep taking more land from all the countrys surrounding them, in the name of security.
But if Hezbollah put down their weapons, would israel then stop hostilities, I don't think so, as I've previously said, Irael has created the security situation and it serves israels purposes, there will always be an excuse.

By mixing Hezbollah, Iran, Palestine, Islam, Hamas, Bin Laden etc etc they confuse people to think that all are the same. Its a strategi that works fine and people will stereo type all Arab/muslim issues with terror. By that increasing the wests support for Israel and the war on terror
Totally agree, as I've said previously, this agenda is ongoing by the US to justify their actions, that does not mean they are the only guilty party though.
Take yesterdays situation at british airports, is it unreasonable that an american muslim was taken off a flight yesterday because he had a muslim sounding name? when he worked as a pilot for the airline that was flying him?
Some would say that against all his human rights, but on the other hand if police had got a tip saying someone with ginger hair had a bomb on a plane, people would not hesitate to take all ginger people off the plane?!

It is unfortunate that the actions of a few affect the many, just ask anyone from ireland who wanted to travel to the mainland a few years back.

Rich
 

Munkeh

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Very few if any palestinians have been killed in this conflict, the main number of casulties have been taken by the Lebanese which is a completely different country.
 

Munkeh

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Magued said:
4.This is a myth. Israel cant be overrun by anybody. Israel is one of the biggest military powers in the world. Israel have thousends of nuklear weapons that they would use without hesitation. Its the other way around, Israel is the one who attack and conquer. And nobody have ever occupied a inch of israeli soil. But its a good argument to use for them to keep taking more land from all the countrys surrounding them, in the name of security.
So by this logic how do you explain the Israelis giving land to the Palestinians and evicting their own people to do it? Just wondering of course...
 

Magued

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Munkeh said:
So by this logic how do you explain the Israelis giving land to the Palestinians and evicting their own people to do it? Just wondering of course...
You mean the Gaza strip?

I would guess that it costed to much to keep. In security for the settlers, politicly and by giving back the strip they could say " hey we have given them land now, so we gonna keep the west bank."

BUT we will keep control of all borders, harbors and airports. And main roads, and water, and elictricity and.........

The land wasnt their to give in the first place, it was occupied remember that. If I stole something from you and gve it back after you made a fuss about it. Would you look at me as a hero then?

Or do you suggest the Gaza strip belong to Israel?

Magued
 
The movement of settlers out of the gaza strip served to create a security vacuum that destabilised the fledgling government within the Palestinian state. It was a calculated effort by Isreal that had very little to do with giving land back and served as a smoke screen that merely masked the construction of the border wall that will cripple and destroy the Palestinian economy as well as actually grabbing more land.

To even suggest that not that many Palestnian shave died in this conflict is rediculous and just highlights the horrendous naivety you exhibit. Please just visit the UNHCR website and look at the casualties inflicted by the IDF on Palestinian civilians.

Im not someone who sympathises with terrorists and hold a very strong oppinion on exactly how to deal with them, but it is clear that the Isreali response is one of the most appalling examples of how to make a situation worse for generations to come.
 

Munkeh

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Having trawled the UNHCR website in search of some figures and found none (please give me a link) I stand by my comment. By conflict I mean in the last 4 weeks, since the operations against Hezbollah began.