The Saviours of UK Paintball ?????

[shoaibaktar]

I have to say, I've always been slightly concerned about our present predicament because it seems to have gone on for such a long time - the article I'm trying to finish at the moment involves what I was told at the recent Millennium near Crawley.
I spoke to a lot of my friends in the industry who were there, and as a direct result of those conversations, my concerns for our sport have subsequently deepened - so much so, that I genuinely fear for our sport [Tournament paintball].
I don't think tournament paintball will disappear altogether but I really believe that the Millennium is under real pressure for many reasons.
And if the Millennium goes pop, it really doesn't bear thinking about.
As to why I think the Millennium is in such dangerous times?
I'll try and cover them in the article but suffice it to say, I am definitely NOT exaggerating the situation to spark interest, that's a cheap shot - I'm flagging up what I really believe the precarious situation we now face.
I'll try and finish it today and post it up here ....

Like global warming in the early days ,the polarisation of paintball into mega blocks,was flagged up as coming and bad news.As the corporate era has continued the changes/damage has followed the predicted route ,with the predicted outcomes. So to hear someone who has been in ,both deep and long deciding to flag up the dilemma is validation of the early warnings.You will forward your article soon no doubt ,but I would be suprised if the latest rumour of the NXL launching a European series isn't at the heart of it. This has done the rounds before but this time has gathered some credence.I won't fill this thread with the description of attritional competition and the obvious dimunition of whatever is left for the victor . The sport is already thinning at the top ,fortunately being countered by growth at the bottom,but it is a very different animal in commitment terms and spend . I think the NXL is a poor imitation of the PSP ,but since the progress the PSP had made was destroyed ,it is hardly suprising that the new start is back at the bottom of the curve .So too would be the winner of the euro series.. If there was a sports governing body ,regulating the leagues through federations this would not be allowed to happen .But this is a company marketplace so as long as the winner comes out with a bigger slice of a reduced marketplace it will be judged a sucess,

 

[olliewidd]

As a player of the skirmish GI Cup, the CPPS and the UKWM ive got to comment on how much teamwork behind the head boys of these sites/leagues seems to go on. Nick at Skirmish is the first one to admit that his site and his league isn't a contender with the CPPS but the for the effort and quality that he provides it really could be. The only thing limiting it is the size of the site. However, from what he tells me the various leaders work with each other to ensure there's as little confliction of events as possible to ensure everyone gets their fair share. This is beneficial to everyone involved and is great to see; rather than in-fighting they've turned to co-operation and it works. Really, really well. The various leagues have almost set themselves into a hierarchy with events such as Skirmish's GI cup being an almost feeder league for the CPPS which, in turn, feeds teams into The Mills. Its a great system and they're all being done at very, very good prices which makes them all the more attractive. Indeed, id more than happily take a CPPS event or GI cup event over a Mills event purely because the money/play time ratio is so much better. The quality of tournaments and the venues being held these days is phenomenal and when you compare them to some of the events 3/4/5 years ago its amazing to see how far we've come. We're incredibly lucky to have so many quality venues and tournaments arranged by some of the nicest guys in the business within what is a fairly small area. The resurgence of woodsball has opened the eyes of a lot of new players (myself included) in regards to different forms of paintball and how much fun they can be. After the failure of the UWL over here I genuinely bemoaned the fact that so many people were willing to tear something down and no-one was willing to build something in its place. Then Dave and Twizz did their thing and I was chowing down on a huge slice of humble pie. They've absolutely nailed it and the UKWM is, by far, one of the most fun series ive ever played. The UK scene seems to be in such a good place at the moment and from a player's perspective I couldn't be happier. Thank god we've got these people in our sport and thank god they get on. From me (and I guess many others) thank you for all that you do guys. Its awesome.

On the kit side of life. Yes kit is expensive and some guns are plastic but guns now are the lightest, most efficient, most advanced they've ever been and when you compare them to the price of some of the custom cockers back in the day (£1500 all day long) you can really see what you're paying for. Case in point is Shocktech just re-released their classic SFL from back in the day and its retailing at $1300 or so. $1300 for a mechanical gun!!! That kind of money could buy you an LV1.5 and still leave you change for hookers and pizza.

 

[Steve sampson]

always a good read and robbo no's the game inside and out probably better then anyone.

 

[Steve sampson]

As a player of the skirmish GI Cup, the CPPS and the UKWM ive got to comment on how much teamwork behind the head boys of these sites/leagues seems to go on. Nick at Skirmish is the first one to admit that his site and his league isn't a contender with the CPPS but the for the effort and quality that he provides it really could be. The only thing limiting it is the size of the site. However, from what he tells me the various leaders work with each other to ensure there's as little confliction of events as possible to ensure everyone gets their fair share. This is beneficial to everyone involved and is great to see; rather than in-fighting they've turned to co-operation and it works. Really, really well. The various leagues have almost set themselves into a hierarchy with events such as Skirmish's GI cup being an almost feeder league for the CPPS which, in turn, feeds teams into The Mills. Its a great system and they're all being done at very, very good prices which makes them all the more attractive. Indeed, id more than happily take a CPPS event or GI cup event over a Mills event purely because the money/play time ratio is so much better. The quality of tournaments and the venues being held these days is phenomenal and when you compare them to some of the events 3/4/5 years ago its amazing to see how far we've come. We're incredibly lucky to have so many quality venues and tournaments arranged by some of the nicest guys in the business within what is a fairly small area. The resurgence of woodsball has opened the eyes of a lot of new players (myself included) in regards to different forms of paintball and how much fun they can be. After the failure of the UWL over here I genuinely bemoaned the fact that so many people were willing to tear something down and no-one was willing to build something in its place. Then Dave and Twizz did their thing and I was chowing down on a huge slice of humble pie. They've absolutely nailed it and the UKWM is, by far, one of the most fun series ive ever played. The UK scene seems to be in such a good place at the moment and from a player's perspective I couldn't be happier. Thank god we've got these people in our sport and thank god they get on. From me (and I guess many others) thank you for all that you do guys. Its awesome.

On the kit side of life. Yes kit is expensive and some guns are plastic but guns now are the lightest, most efficient, most advanced they've ever been and when you compare them to the price of some of the custom cockers back in the day (£1500 all day long) you can really see what you're paying for. Case in point is Shocktech just re-released their classic SFL from back in the day and its retailing at $1300 or so. $1300 for a mechanical gun!!! That kind of money could buy you an LV1.5 and still leave you change for hookers and pizza.

what site are the hookers and pizza on lol

 

[Spikerz]

I'm curious how much communication happens (I'm sure there's some) between the heads of the major country based series and their peers across Europe?

The DPL in Germany went from 400 registered teams to 600+ in 2 years. They have 38 events spread across 8 divisions. https://dpl-online.de/ligastruktur/ , yes they have Ulrich, but we have Jaba!

I'm not sure if the affiliate league towards a unified series point total structure can work. I think that the DPL structure shows that it can generate interest and an increase in teams though. It may be worth a conversation for the good of the future of the sport.

Much like the NXL coming to Europe rumors.

 

[onasilverbike]

I'm curious how much communication happens (I'm sure there's some) between the heads of the major country based series and their peers across Europe?

The DPL in Germany went from 400 registered teams to 600+ in 2 years. They have 38 events spread across 8 divisions. https://dpl-online.de/ligastruktur/ , yes they have Ulrich, but we have Jaba!

I'm not sure if the affiliate league towards a unified series point total structure can work. I think that the DPL structure shows that it can generate interest and an increase in teams though. It may be worth a conversation for the good of the future of the sport.

Much like the NXL coming to Europe rumors.

Officially, through the EPBF

 

[Robbo]

I think the danger we now face is the potential loss of our flagship event series, the Millennium.
We are fast closing in on the break-even figure for the Millennium which I think is about 120 teams, below which, the series becomes a financial liability .... factor in that we had 135 teams at the recent Millennium near Crawley, and it's obvious we're now sailing far too close to the wind.

The two power-houses of the Millennium are Steve Baldwin and Laurent Hamet aren't gonna pull the plug if the number of teams entered hovers around 120 but if it starts diving significantly below 120 for long enough then we can expect decisions to be made.
There are a couple of important factors in the background that will come to a head in about a year or two and will significantly influence these 'decisions' but I only hope that by that time, someone like Ainsley [with some industry help] can be persuaded to come in - I'm not suggesting there is such a move on the cards, I'm just speculating, that's all.

 

[frosty]

Officially, through the EPBF

And isnt our very own ainsley EL'presidente of said EPBF?

 

[shoaibaktar]

I think the danger we now face is the potential loss of our flagship event series, the Millennium.
We are fast closing in on the break-even figure for the Millennium which I think is about 120 teams, below which, the series becomes a financial liability .... factor in that we had 135 teams at the recent Millennium near Crawley, and it's obvious we're now sailing far too close to the wind.

The two power-houses of the Millennium are Steve Baldwin and Laurent Hamet aren't gonna pull the plug if the number of teams entered hovers around 120 but if it starts diving significantly below 120 for long enough then we can expect decisions to be made.
There are a couple of important factors in the background that will come to a head in about a year or two and will significantly influence these 'decisions' but I only hope that by that time, someone like Ainsley [with some industry help] can be persuaded to come in - I'm not suggesting there is such a move on the cards, I'm just speculating, that's all.

I think you are spot on there and though I think the Mills may prove to be more versatile and adapt as it has done in the past.You cannot get away from it's waning popularity amongst players. It is proven by the National competitions that there is more than enough time to give people more paintball for the same money. While they may have appeal to a wider audience(the Internationals) ,it is the teams who pay for the viability of these events and if you are paying a lot ,you deserve a lot of gametime. My son has often said to me ,even when you make Sunday club you are playing 4/5 games of paintball over 3 days!! When you have flown to the other end of Europe and on a Saturday played 1 game of paintball ,you have a lot of time to kill and wonder why you're laying out all this money to not play ball'. It is shown by the CPL who now play 4 prelims and still have the Internationals on the CPL field that ALL teams can play more and before anyone chimes up about more paint ,that's one of the big plus factors of M500. Besides the cost of 3 more boxes of paint compared to an events total bill is negligible . I believe you are right and numbers will continue to fall ,but that this will be the driver for a better value Mills which will be more play as costcutting will affect the bottom line while the fixed costs remain the same.

 

[Robbo]

This whole issue seems to revolve around what it costs for teams/players to an event and there's no doubt, it is expensive.
But let's not forget that the Millennium has evolved over the last 20 yeas or so and the two main factors driving its evolution are obviously the owners [mainly Steve Baldwin and Laurent Hamet] and the players/teams.
There is a very deep connection between Steve/Laurent and all of the players/teams over the last 30 years and I'd hate to see it disband.
The Millennium is in the driving seat but the direction they take will be a function of what the players/teams want/prefer.

If there was something fundamentally wrong with the Series then it's well within the player's remit to ask/plead for a change.
Criticism over the years tended to be fragmented and disorganised in the sense that there's been no serious representation made by the players for specific changes to be made - appeals have tended to be piecemeal and small-time.

Bottom line is this - if the players/teams want it to continue then they have to get proactive and propose cogent ideas for change. I know the Millennium have come in for a fair bit of stick over the years but I've known and been friends with Steve for 30 years now, the first time I came into contact with him was when he ejected my team from the first event in 1987 .... we've been friends since then, and as for Laurent?
I've known him and been friends with for over 25 years now and the point I'm struggling to make is that for all their faults, they've always had the welfare of our sport at their heart and have tried to develop our sport in a positive direction.

Sure, they've made a few quid but not as much as their detractors like to accuse them of - I'd hate to see them retire from paintball but maybe they're burning out after so many years on the front line of our sport and if they are, who could blame them?
Not me .....