Self defence in 2013?

[Tom]

I find it mildly concerning that you feel that this would be your best form of defence against an intruder. Think of the civil claim that the intruder could make against you should you happen to shoot them in the yet and they lose their sight!

Potential for a civil case, plus criminal assault, ABH, GBH etc

 

[PaulBox]

Unless you are 100% certain you can defend yourself its best to let people get what they want..... Think about it. They're there to take something of value from you.... give it them, once they have what they want they'll leave, i think were mixing thieves and murderers, most of the time they are completely different people.

Agree 100% with this. I used to be into cars quite a bit and one of the issues people with half decent motors on their drive face, is scum bags breaking in to their house to steal the keys. A regular hot topic on the car forums is "where do you hide your keys?". My answer was always in plain view on the breakfast bar in the kitchen.

If some @hole is willing to break in to my house to nick my motor, I don't want to risk him coming upstairs where my wife and daughter are sleeping. I want him out of the house asap.

Paul.
PS. I now drive a diesel estate car so don't bother coming to nick my keys

 

[Rock Ape]

Just keep an unloaded T8.1 by your bed as they look nearly real to the layman and who can tell in the dark. But failing that, you can use it to pistol whip the git! Lol

 

[Rewan]

Has the law really changed that much?

If you use an item that is to hand to defend yourself then you have had the right to do that for years
If you plan what you will use to defend yourself in advance then you have selected a self defence weapon, self defend is irrelevant-it has become a weapon and to do so is illegal. That has been the law for years

If you use a paintball gun then you must air it up and load it. That means it must be prepared, unless you were testing it at the time. It will be illegal.

Have you ever been shot by a paintball gun? Has it incapacitated you?
It someone is breaking into your house they will not be put off by some bruises. They will however aim to stop you shooting at them and will b a bit angry about it. The best thing you could do with a paintball gun is to hit them with it

Do minors have access to your property? If your paintball gun (air weapon in this case) is not secured then you are liable to a £1000 fine.
If you're not cleaning, servicing, testing at the time then you can be the on e in trouble
(The law is just to lock it away, police and home office recommendations are to secure it to firearms standards)

Remember the tony Martin case. He did not need any law changes, despite the daily mail version of the case.
He was a farmer with valid access to a shotgun. It should be locked away but its reasonable for a farmer to respond to noises outside by coming out with a shotgun and ammunition - his animals could be getting attacked
Telling everyone in the pub that he will shoot intruders did not help (but he could be just mouthing off with bravado)
Using an illegal sawn off shotgun to shoot an intruder in the back was his downfall

Lol that escalated quickly.

"I don't recommend it. It would be quite illegal. You could be fined £1000. Don't shoot people with sawn-offs"

But yeah you're right, unless you're loaded up with skull breakers (self-defense paintball ammunition which i'm 99% sure is illegal here) you'd be better off whacking them with whatever you have to hand.

 

[Canon Fodder]

There's a cricket bat, knife , air rifle, co2 and pellets all next to each other in my bedroom, it's always the cricket bat I grab first if something goes bump in the night, good reach on a cricket bat.

 

[munduz]

My weapon of choice would be the missis, She scares the sh*t out of me at times...

 

[Tom]

Lol that escalated quickly.

"I don't recommend it. It would be quite illegal. You could be fined £1000. Don't shoot people with sawn-offs"

But yeah you're right, unless you're loaded up with skull breakers (self-defense paintball ammunition which i'm 99% sure is illegal here) you'd be better off whacking them with whatever you have to hand.

Can you tell that I've heard it all before?
Covered every argument other than the bravado one.

And you're right on the skull breakers - illegal here, as are all the other 'less than lethals' - pepperball etc
Anything that is a 'self defence weapon' is illegal in the uk, you have the right to defend yourself, property, family and even random strangers that you find being attacked in the street (if they are in real danger - not the right to join a fight)
Pre-meditation is not allowed, but you can do anything that is later considered reasonable for the state of fear you were in at the time, and use anything that happened to be to hand without the need of hindsight.

Contrary to the daily mails opinion what is reasonable cannot be absolutely defined - what's reasonable can vary according to circumstances, eg the blackmailer convicted of murder on 'the reasonable man' but then reduced to manslaughter on appeal based on 'the reasonable 15 year old' and the circumstances . Camplin vs dpp, one of the more memorable pieces from my legal education

 

[Rewan]

Can you tell that I've heard it all before?
Covered every argument other than the bravado one.

And you're right on the skull breakers - illegal here, as are all the other 'less than lethals' - pepperball etc
Anything that is a 'self defence weapon' is illegal in the uk, you have the right to defend yourself, property, family and even random strangers that you find being attacked in the street (if they are in real danger - not the right to join a fight)
Pre-meditation is not allowed, but you can do anything that is later considered reasonable for the state of fear you were in at the time, and use anything that happened to be to hand without the need of hindsight.

Contrary to the daily mails opinion what is reasonable cannot be absolutely defined - what's reasonable can vary according to circumstances, eg the blackmailer convicted of murder on 'the reasonable man' but then reduced to manslaughter on appeal based on 'the reasonable 15 year old' and the circumstances . Camplin vs dpp, one of the more memorable pieces from my legal education

Yeah, self-defense is usually far to subjective to be generalised. (he says generalising wildly)

And Camplin vs dpp is an interesting case. I've found that the defendants appeal was allowed but it didn't say whether the murder conviction stood/sentence was reduced?

 

[Tom]

Depending on where you find the case you may or may not get more of the background.

Firstly convicted of murder, then on appeal changed to manslaughter.
I can't remember what the sentencing was like, manslaughter can result in release or even end up being a stronger sentence. It's then up to the judge.

In this case the kid was far from innocent in general, he was blackmailing the guy but ended up getting 'an attack on his person' (to be polite), and was laughed at, then killed the guy with a pan.
Firstly convicted of murder as the humiliation was insufficient defence for 'the reasonable man', but on appeal this set the precident for different elements of 'reasonable'
Still not a good enough defence to excuse it so he won't have got involuntary manslaughter


Back on the self defence subject - the chipati pan would not have been considered a weapon as it was an item to hand, had he used it during the 'attack' he could have used self defence. As it was afterwards it's no longer defence and was a new assault but - if he were an adult then it would have stayed at murder

 

[Dusty]

I have an old RUC baton for ornamental purposes. It's made of solid oak and much more effective than these lightweight extendable nonsense things which are issued these days.

I may also have a 6 D Cell LED Maglite which is awfully long and awfully heavy. Might be misconstrued as a large metal bar by someone who didn't know different if they were temporarily blinded by it in the middle of the day or night.

I may also have a couple of pairs of nunchaku and swords, perfectly reasonable in the house of 2 qualified martial arts instructors. Had to "hide" them in our room now that the kids are big enough to reach them though.