FPS

[Canon Fodder]

do I have to get @gommie404 involved in this aha, he was a section 5 fire arms officer (i believe).
300fps is the legal limit in the UK, and techincally reballs are illegal but not many seem to bother about it

Utter rubbish, a paintball marker firing a reball is an air weapon, as long as the muzzle energy doesn't exceed 12 ft/lb and only one shot is fired per pull of the trigger. 12 ft/lb with an average weight paintball is 330fps.

The arguments about fragmentable projectiles was originally a work round for co2 powered markers back when co2 air weapons needed a firearms cert and has since been extended to justify ramping markers, it's never been tested in a court.

 

[BOD]

do I have to get @gommie404 involved in this aha, he was a section 5 fire arms officer (i believe).
300fps is the legal limit in the UK, and techincally reballs are illegal but not many seem to bother about it

So what you're saying is the paintball industry and the UKPSF is wrong and you're right. This is from the UKPSF which most of the industry follows.

"The Firearms Act and Paintball
The Home Office does not consider paintball markers to be firearms because they fire frangible ammunition which breaks up on contact rather than inflicting a penetrating injury. The paintball industry uses the Air Weapons section of the firearms act to regulate the sport. Air weapons do not need a license if they fall within the following criteria, outside this criteria a licence is required. (This is a brief summary of the main points)

For a paintball marker to be classed as an “Air Weapon” and therefore not require a licence it must not be fired above 12 ft/lbs for a “rifle” type "

 

[did243]

So what you're saying is the paintball industry and the UKPSF is wrong and you're right. This is from the UKPSF which most of the industry follows.

"The Firearms Act and Paintball
The Home Office does not consider paintball markers to be firearms because they fire frangible ammunition which breaks up on contact rather than inflicting a penetrating injury. The paintball industry uses the Air Weapons section of the firearms act to regulate the sport. Air weapons do not need a license if they fall within the following criteria, outside this criteria a licence is required. (This is a brief summary of the main points)

For a paintball marker to be classed as an “Air Weapon” and therefore not require a licence it must not be fired above 12 ft/lbs for a “rifle” type "

what point are you making there? FRANGIBLE round - that doesn't include reballs which makes them a grey area.

 

[gommie404]

oh dear,,here we go again...how many times have i had to shoot down some one who is doing nothing but bad to our paintball sport

there is no 12ft pound limit for paintball... the clue is in the name..12ft pound refers to rifles as in air rifles...we are not rifles we are smooth bores.. our class of weapon is gallery gun,,,
the law was set for markers < note the name there air weapon and not air rifle > back in the eighties..by a chap by the name of bernie fairs,,yes him of hytech,, the first man in british history in be taken to court for running a paintball sight,,, it was at this case that the 300 fps limit was set,, it has nothing what so ever to do with 12 ft pound for air rifles...

now ..stop putting out the wrong information before you do a lot of harm to our sport..
next how do i know.. its what i do for a living... know the law and the class of which our guns belong to... its all to do with class and proof of weapon,,,again..how do i know.. as i used to work as a proof tester,,,i was the man that would give a weapon its class...

now one more time...in big letters...WE ARE AIR WEAPONS NOT AIR RIFLES,,
12ft pound applies to air rifles... air weapons are a seperate section which contain different classes,,and there power limits...

stop this disinformation...im the man that stands up in court and gives the judge what he needs to take your gun away,,, dont let it be you..i would be gutted to see paintball in court again..

its 300 fps and can only be changed by the house of lords..
again we are smooth bore air weapons and our class is that of gallery gun,,,

gallery guns where for informal indoor shooting ..where of smooth bore and had a self contained power < in our case a bottle > and the norm was under 6 ft pound or less than 300 fps...

can we put this to bed now,,,

how many times are we going to have to go over this,,, there is a lot of disinformation put about by groups and sporting bodies ect ect,, we dont need any more adding to it,,

its all about rifled or smooth bore,,,and we are classed as smooth bore not rifled,,

 

[Canon Fodder]

A piantball wieghing 50 grains fired at 300 fps results in a muzzle energy of 10ft/lb.

Now in BIG LETTERS, according to the crown prosecution service, i.e. the guidence upon which it would be decided to take a matter to court ( http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/d_to_g/firearms/ )

Air Weapons

An air weapon is defined, under section 1(3)(b) and 57(4) of the Firearms Act 1968 as:
"an air rifle, air gun or air pistol which does not fall within section 5 (1) (a) and which is not of a type declared by rules made by the Secretary of State under section 53 of the Firearms Act to be specially dangerous".
Any air rifle, air gun or air pistol which uses or is designed or adapted for use with, a self contained gas cartridge system is a prohibited weapon: section 5(1)(af) Firearms Act 1968 e.g. a Brocock
An air rifle is "specially dangerous" if it is capable of discharging a missile so that the missile has, on being discharged from the muzzle of the weapon, kinetic energy in excess in the case of a pistol of 6 ft lbs or, in the case of an air weapon other than an air pistol, 12 ft lbs: Firearms (Dangerous Air Weapons) Rules 1969 rr. 2, 3 (Archbold 24-8a.)
Paintball guns are a type of air weapon. The Home Office regard self-loading or pump action rifled airguns (including paintball guns) as outside the scope of the Firearms Act, unless they are sufficiently powerful to fall within the category of a "specially dangerous" air weapon (Archbold 24.8a). Paintball guns could be considered imitation firearms.
Unless an air weapon falls within one of the above exceptions, it is not subject to section 1 Firearms Act 1968.

Section 5 (1) (a)

Section 5(1)(a) any firearm which is so designed or adapted so that two or more missiles can be successively discharged without repeated pressure on the trigger, e.g. machine guns, burst fire weapons;

Since these are the guidelines the crown prosecution service go by they are the ones I'll follow.

In the court case concerning Bernie Fair in the eighties quoted by Gommie I'd put money on the decision to prosecute being based on CO2 being the propellent since it wasn't until the change in firearm rules following the Dunblane incident in 1996 that a CO2 powered air weapon of any power hasn't required a firearm certificate, before that they did. Hence the defence having to rely on the "gallery gun" line.

The UKPSF state that the home office don't consider paintball markers to come into the firearms act due to the fragmentable projectile thing but I haven't seen any goverment published documents agreeing to this (if someone wants to link me to such a document I'd be grateful).

 

[did243]

A piantball wieghing 50 grains fired at 300 fps results in a muzzle energy of 10ft/lb.

Now in BIG LETTERS, according to the crown prosecution service, i.e. the guidence upon which it would be decided to take a matter to court ( http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/d_to_g/firearms/ )

Air Weapons

An air weapon is defined, under section 1(3)(b) and 57(4) of the Firearms Act 1968 as:
"an air rifle, air gun or air pistol which does not fall within section 5 (1) (a) and which is not of a type declared by rules made by the Secretary of State under section 53 of the Firearms Act to be specially dangerous".
Any air rifle, air gun or air pistol which uses or is designed or adapted for use with, a self contained gas cartridge system is a prohibited weapon: section 5(1)(af) Firearms Act 1968 e.g. a Brocock
An air rifle is "specially dangerous" if it is capable of discharging a missile so that the missile has, on being discharged from the muzzle of the weapon, kinetic energy in excess in the case of a pistol of 6 ft lbs or, in the case of an air weapon other than an air pistol, 12 ft lbs: Firearms (Dangerous Air Weapons) Rules 1969 rr. 2, 3 (Archbold 24-8a.)
Paintball guns are a type of air weapon. The Home Office regard self-loading or pump action rifled airguns (including paintball guns) as outside the scope of the Firearms Act, unless they are sufficiently powerful to fall within the category of a "specially dangerous" air weapon (Archbold 24.8a). Paintball guns could be considered imitation firearms.
Unless an air weapon falls within one of the above exceptions, it is not subject to section 1 Firearms Act 1968.

Section 5 (1) (a)

Section 5(1)(a) any firearm which is so designed or adapted so that two or more missiles can be successively discharged without repeated pressure on the trigger, e.g. machine guns, burst fire weapons;

Since these are the guidelines the crown prosecution service go by they are the ones I'll follow.

In the court case concerning Bernie Fair in the eighties quoted by Gommie I'd put money on the decision to prosecute being based on CO2 being the propellent since it wasn't until the change in firearm rules following the Dunblane incident in 1996 that a CO2 powered air weapon of any power hasn't required a firearm certificate, before that they did. Hence the defence having to rely on the "gallery gun" line.

The UKPSF state that the home office don't consider paintball markers to come into the firearms act due to the fragmentable projectile thing but I haven't seen any goverment published documents agreeing to this (if someone wants to link me to such a document I'd be grateful).

Gommie is the guy the court calls upon to decide....

Anyway - im off to my local field this weekend - brb shooting 330fps....

 

[BOD]

oh dear,,here we go again...how many times have i had to shoot down some one who is doing nothing but bad to our paintball sport

there is no 12ft pound limit for paintball... the clue is in the name..12ft pound refers to rifles as in air rifles...we are not rifles we are smooth bores.. our class of weapon is gallery gun,,,
the law was set for markers < note the name there air weapon and not air rifle > back in the eighties..by a chap by the name of bernie fairs,,yes him of hytech,, the first man in british history in be taken to court for running a paintball sight,,, it was at this case that the 300 fps limit was set,, it has nothing what so ever to do with 12 ft pound for air rifles...

now ..stop putting out the wrong information before you do a lot of harm to our sport..
next how do i know.. its what i do for a living... know the law and the class of which our guns belong to... its all to do with class and proof of weapon,,,again..how do i know.. as i used to work as a proof tester,,,i was the man that would give a weapon its class...

now one more time...in big letters...WE ARE AIR WEAPONS NOT AIR RIFLES,,
12ft pound applies to air rifles... air weapons are a seperate section which contain different classes,,and there power limits...

stop this disinformation...im the man that stands up in court and gives the judge what he needs to take your gun away,,, dont let it be you..i would be gutted to see paintball in court again..

its 300 fps and can only be changed by the house of lords..
again we are smooth bore air weapons and our class is that of gallery gun,,,

gallery guns where for informal indoor shooting ..where of smooth bore and had a self contained power < in our case a bottle > and the norm was under 6 ft pound or less than 300 fps...

can we put this to bed now,,,

how many times are we going to have to go over this,,, there is a lot of disinformation put about by groups and sporting bodies ect ect,, we dont need any more adding to it,,

its all about rifled or smooth bore,,,and we are classed as smooth bore not rifled,,

So what you're saying is this information on the UKPSF site is in fact completely wrong,

"The Firearms Act and Paintball
The Home Office does not consider paintball markers to be firearms because they fire frangible ammunition which breaks up on contact rather than inflicting a penetrating injury. The paintball industry uses the Air Weapons section of the firearms act to regulate the sport. Air weapons do not need a license if they fall within the following criteria, outside this criteria a licence is required. (This is a brief summary of the main points)

For a paintball marker to be classed as an “Air Weapon” and therefore not require a licence it must not be fired above 12 ft/lbs for a “rifle” type and 6 ft/lbs for a “pistol” type. Nearly all paintball markers come under the “rifle” type, only markers like the “splatmaster” come into the “pistol” category. If a marker fires above these limits they will then come under the Firearms Act and require a licence or be classed as a prohibited weapon. The recent amendment included carbon dioxide as an approved propellant previously only compressed air was allowed. Paintball markers must also only fire approved paintballs. Paintball markers must not be fully automatic i.e. when pulling the trigger once, two or more paintballs must not be discharged.

To stay within the law a paintball marker must not be fired above 330fps when using an average weight paintball, this equates to 12 ft/lbs. All tournament markers are restricted to a maximum velocity of 300fps, which equates to 9.9ft/lbs and site markers should be used at between 250-280fps to be safe for customers. This equates to 7ft/lbs-8.7ft/lbs."

This being the information and guide lines used and followed by most sites and event organisers you should maybe get it changed to the correct information.

 

[Canon Fodder]

Did243 - 330 fps will be against your sites rules, but your marker will still be legal to own unless it runs foul of 5(1)(a).

BOD - I'd love to see the letter from the home office to the UKPSF which contains the statement concerning "Frangible ammunition", it would make everything much clearer.

 

[gommie404]

again ..all i see hear and read is air rifle...oh god,,,we are not air rifles..and do not have to follow the 12ft pound limit..
then what i see is the legal printings for rifled weapons pistols and rifles as in 12ft and 6 ft pound...your still missing the fact that we are smooth bore..a co2 smooth bore pistol that fires with out recocking..ie a gallery gun has to run at 3 ft pound or under..
so that right there has just just shown you how a class of weapon or proof of weapon affect its out put power.
as all ready i just see quotes from the home office web site..


this is its class and proof of weapon.. what you read on the home office web site is a quick glance at fire arm law...
a guide line for the public...

evert time this comes up in a thread it puts our sport in danger..stop telling new players they can run at 330 fps..
its 300fps..and allways has been untill its over turned by the house of lords.. it never has been nor ever will be..

stop qouting 12ft pound limits and using the word air rilfe...again,,even after i explain that we are smooth bore,,i see it pop up again..

at the end of the day..if you land in court with a paintball marker that runs over 300 fps..your gonna get busted..
take it as that and walk away..

before to many new players read this and go out shooting at 330fps...we all ready have problems with reballs and the vcr bill with out this adding to it..

please

 

[Canon Fodder]

Okay lets leave it as don't take your marker over 300 fps - you won't be allowed to play with it any higher anyway so there is no point taking it any higher anyway.