Filling your bottles

[Tom]

Why not just a ring that you sit the bottle into have a long enough hose so it aint stupidly short like most sites then its a lot more unlikely to hurt anyone. The bottle can be sat straight with the reg pointing up then as well. I could make something like that in 5 mins for next to nothing your right though people don't realise the danger until something happens site owners included it seems.

That is a good idea, and is quite an easy / cheap one for sites, there is some additional expense of longer hoses and fittings when retro fitting. But is minor in relation to the benefits
I have since fill stations with long hoses such as the one at Ambush Botley
As a scenario player I see this for convenience to the player - it gives the ability to fill a remote cylinder without taking off your gear, in a similar way to remote fill whips (though this comes with the added potential risk that the cylinder is attached to the player when filling, but most of the time this will be topping up during the day not a full fill)
But the real reason the site have long fill hoses is because they put the punter guns into racks and the marshals and fill a series of cylinders with ease

A similar option is rigid fill rigs. With some of these you can attach the cylinder and let go
However this puts the weight if the cylinder on the fill nipple, and if not properly attached it can come off when you turn on the air

Either of these though do give the opportunity of seperating the 'filler' from the cylinder if a problem occurs letting it blow air or fly off in a 'safe' direction

 

[quantem_flux]

I have the apparatus at home to fill my bottle with argon . although I am wary when filling bottles. The results of using argon was better than air. A denser noble gas that would be used if it was economically efficient

Why would you use argon it is 38% heavier than air so you would get less and it will expand easier in the bottle when it gets warm bringing you a lot closer to an explosion

 

[Jonathan Baker]

I haven't long been paintballing, when learning the do's and don'ts I asked site staff, which they happily helped to show me how to fill my 4500psi 68cu tank although after being shown I'd still only want to fill my own bottle as its my own gear and I'm responsible for it. It comes down to common sense, most sites I've been to wont go past 3000psi which I think covers the people who fill incorrectly.

 

[BDswarveP]

we have trained marshals at hand to fill bottles from 3k to 4.5k at walkons and any other game day, yet it doesnt stop puddings from trying to fill the bottles themselves and end up getting the bottle stuck on the fill rigs because they dont actually know what there doing, i would much prefer customers fill there own bottles as it would be much less of a faff on, but as stated in the first post, insurance is the reason we cant.

 

[BOD]

It comes down to common sense, most sites I've been to wont go past 3000psi which I think covers the people who fill incorrectly.

3000psi is just as deadly as 4500psi, the reason sites tend to only fill to 3000psi is down to 2 things and both are down to running costs. Firstly if you only fill to 3000psi you don't need to have your compressor running constantly you can fill your bottle bank in the morning and run of that depending on how busy your site is. Secondly site bottles for rental customers will be only 3000psi so there's not much point in going to the expense of having 2 different fill systems.

 

[DeadMan]

Just thought I would post here. I troll and read quite a lot, but many years since I have even thought the need to show my opinion.

I used to work at a site every weekend, and always had a butterfly in my stomach when some new marshal tried to fill a tank. Having played for many years I always felt comfortable, and as our system was installed by HPAC, they also took the time to show us correctly how to fill the bottles. The bottles we used on site were steel bottles.

On a side note - I do a lot with modified engines, not so much diesel, but have touched upon some of the older style diesel manual injection. They have something called 'runaway engines' where they self fuel - turbo side seals break down and the engine will fuel it self from very thin (very hot) engine oil.

Why is this relevant? Well every time you clean a fill nipple, be it with a bit of WD40 or what ever choice of lubricant - you're filling an enclosed cylinder with highly compressed gas. You're also adding a bit of fuel (in the form of a thin oil, eg WD40). Sites also use penetrating oil to clean the air lines - if not cleaned out properly - you're just forcing fuel in to your tank.

Go back to the diesel engine - it is a sealed cylinder, with a mix of Air and Fuel, which gets put under massive compression, the fuel doesn't require a spark to combust (side note: which is why diesels don't back fire). Now take a step back and look at your own fill bottle. Diesel loves to combust with warm air. Ever filled your tank and thought "this tanks bloody hot (well warm)"?...

Ok on a site it is on a much larger scale (Weekends where we would have 300+ people each day weren't uncommon) - a lot more dirt in the fill nipples, a lot more frequent cleaning of taps and fill lines.

There were points where we were shaking the bottles to listen for debree, and oil, inside. As the gun tech for the site I would commonly open up the bottles (by removing the grub screws and unscrewing the regulator) and actually see what falls out. Lets say I 'cleaned' 10 bottles a day for example, using this method. Of the 10, 8 would have substantial mud and crud, 2 would have ample amounts of oil - now I am talking about 20-30 ml. lets add in to the equation the damage which all site bottles WILL have from being thrown around and bashing rocks on a field.

So... compromised container, high pressure air, moderate warmth and of course oil.

I have no legal qualification or accredited training to use the refill stations. Where did I stand in the eyes of the law? I would like to think my common sense approach to issues is why I am an engineer, and why I love engines so much, but in reality you have people playing the sport who are far less qualified (If we consider common sense as a qualification here) to even use a marker, let alone refill a 4500 pound-force per square inch bottle.

The only sensible ways to do it, which I can see, would be to employ persons at events and sites who have had sufficient training and given a sufficient knowledge base, or, require that all persons attending an organised event submit a filled in questionnaire regarding the fill station, the dangers and the key common sense problem solutions. (eg, nipple covers, use a non oil based penetrating fluid, listen for debree in bottle, keep bottles cool and without doubt a few hours brain storming will reveal lots more).

Been trying to find the video of that guy getting stabbed with the shards of CF after his wrapped bottle shat itself at an event 5 - 6 years ago.

 

[BOD]

Just thought I would post here. I troll and read quite a lot, but many years since I have even thought the need to show my opinion.

I used to work at a site every weekend, and always had a butterfly in my stomach when some new marshal tried to fill a tank. Having played for many years I always felt comfortable, and as our system was installed by HPAC, they also took the time to show us correctly how to fill the bottles. The bottles we used on site were steel bottles.

On a side note - I do a lot with modified engines, not so much diesel, but have touched upon some of the older style diesel manual injection. They have something called 'runaway engines' where they self fuel - turbo side seals break down and the engine will fuel it self from very thin (very hot) engine oil.

Why is this relevant? Well every time you clean a fill nipple, be it with a bit of WD40 or what ever choice of lubricant - you're filling an enclosed cylinder with highly compressed gas. You're also adding a bit of fuel (in the form of a thin oil, eg WD40). Sites also use penetrating oil to clean the air lines - if not cleaned out properly - you're just forcing fuel in to your tank.

Go back to the diesel engine - it is a sealed cylinder, with a mix of Air and Fuel, which gets put under massive compression, the fuel doesn't require a spark to combust (side note: which is why diesels don't back fire). Now take a step back and look at your own fill bottle. Diesel loves to combust with warm air. Ever filled your tank and thought "this tanks bloody hot (well warm)"?...

Ok on a site it is on a much larger scale (Weekends where we would have 300+ people each day weren't uncommon) - a lot more dirt in the fill nipples, a lot more frequent cleaning of taps and fill lines.

There were points where we were shaking the bottles to listen for debree, and oil, inside. As the gun tech for the site I would commonly open up the bottles (by removing the grub screws and unscrewing the regulator) and actually see what falls out. Lets say I 'cleaned' 10 bottles a day for example, using this method. Of the 10, 8 would have substantial mud and crud, 2 would have ample amounts of oil - now I am talking about 20-30 ml. lets add in to the equation the damage which all site bottles WILL have from being thrown around and bashing rocks on a field.

So... compromised container, high pressure air, moderate warmth and of course oil.

I have no legal qualification or accredited training to use the refill stations. Where did I stand in the eyes of the law? I would like to think my common sense approach to issues is why I am an engineer, and why I love engines so much, but in reality you have people playing the sport who are far less qualified (If we consider common sense as a qualification here) to even use a marker, let alone refill a 4500 pound-force per square inch bottle.

The only sensible ways to do it, which I can see, would be to employ persons at events and sites who have had sufficient training and given a sufficient knowledge base, or, require that all persons attending an organised event submit a filled in questionnaire regarding the fill station, the dangers and the key common sense problem solutions. (eg, nipple covers, use a non oil based penetrating fluid, listen for debree in bottle, keep bottles cool and without doubt a few hours brain storming will reveal lots more).

Been trying to find the video of that guy getting stabbed with the shards of CF after his wrapped bottle shat itself at an event 5 - 6 years ago.

How are you still alive and what's a more important question how many people are you trying to kill. NO KIND OF OIL SHOULD EVER BE USED TO CLEAN A FILL NIPPLE OR HPA SYSTEM

 

[DeadMan]

Why not? You do things properly, you have no problems.

e.g. - remove fill nipple, replenish sealing oring, clean dirt, clean reg, reassemble.

 

[Dusty]

How are you still alive and what's a more important question how many people are you trying to kill. NO KIND OF OIL SHOULD EVER BE USED TO CLEAN A FILL NIPPLE OR HPA SYSTEM

I think you have misinterpreted the post you're quoting.

Whether you have or not is irrelevant, the tone of your post isn't exactly appropriate here.

I know there is filter oil in the air filter of our Bauer compressor, it's designed to fill dive tanks for breathing air after all and there will always be a certain minute residue through the lines. The problems occur when someone chucks a bit of wd40 or 3-in-1 oil down their fill nipple when it sticks, instead of replacing it or removing and cleaning it properly/replacing the nipple pin o-ring.

I do agree, there should be someone on sites who is responsible for filling tanks or maybe depending on the footfall of the site in question, perhaps supervising the use of the fill stations. On our site, only two people fill air cylinders, we don't cater for walk ons, and we fill at a safe distance and segregated from customers.

 

[BOD]

This is the bit that alarmed me, anyone who doesn't know any better will think it's ok to use oil in their fill nipple. And any site using penetrating oil to clean air lines is a site i'd avoid like the plague.

Why is this relevant? Well every time you clean a fill nipple, be it with a bit of WD40 or what ever choice of lubricant - you're filling an enclosed cylinder with highly compressed gas. You're also adding a bit of fuel (in the form of a thin oil, eg WD40). Sites also use penetrating oil to clean the air lines - if not cleaned out properly - you're just forcing fuel in to your tank.

.