CPPS 2012 Round 2 Feedback Thread
- Thread starter Tony Harrison
- Start date
oh of course.. watch the ultimate, safe side.even the refs can get it wrong on occasion as i noticed..
Dave It's not a 1 for 1 it's always enforced ( by none over zelouse reffs ) as a simple elimination.
What is interesting is this doesn't read correctly. You can fire your marker/ do anything you like up until the buzzer goes (I.e you can test your gun in the 10 seconds) providing you are touching when the buzzer goes. This would mean a touch back is valid providing you touch the start gate with the barrel prior to shooting during the match (I.e after the game on buzzer sounds).
This is not how the rules read?
To save anymore confusion as a paying customer and his team just wanting to go out and enjoy themselves in a fair game, the rule in question is
if the barrel(s) is not touching startgate when the buzzer sounds and the player(s) play on, only the player(s) that did not have there barrels touching are eliminated if the game has not been affected.
so a 141 should only be enforced if the player(s) actually shot another player on the opposing team.
Reading the Millenium rules and the different comments in this thread, its starting to confuse.
if the barrel(s) is not touching startgate when the buzzer sounds and the player(s) play on, only the player(s) that did not have there barrels touching are eliminated if the game has not been affected.
so a 141 should only be enforced if the player(s) actually shot another player on the opposing team.
Reading the Millenium rules and the different comments in this thread, its starting to confuse.
unfortunately in the millennium rules there are several rules which are down to interpretation. the new touch back rule is one of them.
the way i read the touch back rule is that if a players barrel is not touching when the signal for game on is given he must touch the start gate before he can shoot his gun.....if a player hasn't done this then i would hope the ref would eliminate him straight away. however if a player who is eliminated posts his gun or shoots then according to a different rule in the book the penalty for this is a 141. obviously the combination of these 2 rules is down to interpretation but if a player is shooting down field on the break whether an opposing player is hit or not then the game is being influenced.
so the problem is if a player is 'unaware' he needs to touch back and gets hit gun up faster than the ref can eliminate him then in theory the player is open to a 141.
further complicated by the touch back rule not mentioning moving away from the start gate, again moving could also in influential on the game also does stepping away from the gate indicate that the player has no intention to touch back. if we had enough refs that we could have one stood behind the start gates then it wouldn't be a problem BUT without that then its going to be almost impossible to remove a player before the trigger is pulled. therefore you are going to see penalties if people are playing on, is all down to how fast the ref can shout 'out' and if the player responds to that....chances are on the break the player is going to get to the trigger before the ref is heard. ive not seen how the millennium are reffing this rule but i can imagine if the player shoots then its a 141
in short if a player is unaware that he needs to touch back the chances are he is going to get a penalty.
the way i read the touch back rule is that if a players barrel is not touching when the signal for game on is given he must touch the start gate before he can shoot his gun.....if a player hasn't done this then i would hope the ref would eliminate him straight away. however if a player who is eliminated posts his gun or shoots then according to a different rule in the book the penalty for this is a 141. obviously the combination of these 2 rules is down to interpretation but if a player is shooting down field on the break whether an opposing player is hit or not then the game is being influenced.
so the problem is if a player is 'unaware' he needs to touch back and gets hit gun up faster than the ref can eliminate him then in theory the player is open to a 141.
further complicated by the touch back rule not mentioning moving away from the start gate, again moving could also in influential on the game also does stepping away from the gate indicate that the player has no intention to touch back. if we had enough refs that we could have one stood behind the start gates then it wouldn't be a problem BUT without that then its going to be almost impossible to remove a player before the trigger is pulled. therefore you are going to see penalties if people are playing on, is all down to how fast the ref can shout 'out' and if the player responds to that....chances are on the break the player is going to get to the trigger before the ref is heard. ive not seen how the millennium are reffing this rule but i can imagine if the player shoots then its a 141
in short if a player is unaware that he needs to touch back the chances are he is going to get a penalty.
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Great event once again, thanks to Rich, BoP, all the refs and everyone we played, no complaints here
I can sympathise with the whole 'buzzer situation' though, it did catch me out a few times but luckily I was able to touch back. A simple solution though (and i've seen this done by Rick on the blue field) is to stress that "This game will start on the blast of a whistle / a shout of "Game On!" / A buzzer ONLY" before the game / point begins, and have a different one for each field. Pretty simple but if the Ultimate takes 2 seconds to make it loud & clear pre-game then you know what to listen out for. Failing that, the reason why refs have their arms in the air & drop them is for situations like this...
See you all at Round 3!
I can sympathise with the whole 'buzzer situation' though, it did catch me out a few times but luckily I was able to touch back. A simple solution though (and i've seen this done by Rick on the blue field) is to stress that "This game will start on the blast of a whistle / a shout of "Game On!" / A buzzer ONLY" before the game / point begins, and have a different one for each field. Pretty simple but if the Ultimate takes 2 seconds to make it loud & clear pre-game then you know what to listen out for. Failing that, the reason why refs have their arms in the air & drop them is for situations like this...
See you all at Round 3!
The reason the 'no tolerance' rules were brought in was to make sure it was easier for the refs and the player gets penaltied for any advantage.
The player can't really argue with this and so the ref is pretty much always right. Harsh, but definitely fair.
What grinds peoples gears is the refs inconsistency with this. I think Rich needs to enforce the F*** out of this and players need to realise what they can and can't do. I've not ref'd that often, but if I do, I stick to this simple rule and very rarely will a player be able to argue their case against it.
I'd say the biggest grey area with this is moving between bunkers, this is most likely to go to the ref's interpretation, but one paintball leaving your gun = an advantage, those who think they got robbed at the weekend, or any tournament before, think about what happened and i'd put money on the ref's having called it right by the rules
The player can't really argue with this and so the ref is pretty much always right. Harsh, but definitely fair.
What grinds peoples gears is the refs inconsistency with this. I think Rich needs to enforce the F*** out of this and players need to realise what they can and can't do. I've not ref'd that often, but if I do, I stick to this simple rule and very rarely will a player be able to argue their case against it.
I'd say the biggest grey area with this is moving between bunkers, this is most likely to go to the ref's interpretation, but one paintball leaving your gun = an advantage, those who think they got robbed at the weekend, or any tournament before, think about what happened and i'd put money on the ref's having called it right by the rules
It was an awesome event with the one and only thing letting it down for me being the weather. Trouble-free all day, couldn't question a single call by any of the refs on the GI field for our pre-lim and the Celtic field for our group games, thanks to all of you. Lot of fun grinding it out with Disruption, Firm, Bristol Effect and Tigers! Great move having the pitting areas at each end of the field, made things much easier. GI 3* shooting brilliant in such changeable conditions. More of the same for Round 3 please
oh i don't know why i forgot about this until now, but at the eclipse field for race2 session, when we went to use the staging tents set up in front of the field for our first game there was the team that was currently playing in one but in the tent next to it the table was gone. we didn't bother trying to grab a staging tent again and just made do with the tables already in use in the normal tents.
i didnt notice how well it worked at the other fields but using the opposite staging tents was more or less negated by the fact we still had to all go to the same end to queue for air since only one was working.
this wasn't a big concern by any manner of means but just wanted to point out that on this field anyway the goal of having dedicated staging tents running didn't really seem to be achieved. comments/opinions?
i didnt notice how well it worked at the other fields but using the opposite staging tents was more or less negated by the fact we still had to all go to the same end to queue for air since only one was working.
this wasn't a big concern by any manner of means but just wanted to point out that on this field anyway the goal of having dedicated staging tents running didn't really seem to be achieved. comments/opinions?