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our war - bbc

Ali

gunnin down fools in style
Jun 23, 2007
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i know it isnt the weekend but really cant help but post this.
anyone watched our war last night on bbc? i heard people talking about it so i watched it this morning on iplayer and ive gotta say despite of hearing about soldiers always being killed out there it really doesnt hit you until you watch it!
its so stupidly sad and upsetting and i cant imagine how they must of felt when they heard man down and have the slight relief that he was still breathing to then later be told he had died:(

so much love goes out to the troops out there



sorry if this aint allowed to be posted since it aint the weekend but mods feel free to delete if you wish
 

stongle

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Will have to watch it.

On a related note, anyone see America's Secret Killers on Ch4 on Monday? It's about the Kill / Capture campaign run by JSOC in Afghanistan and Pakistan. A bit biased (in favour of teh Taliban), but it makes you wonder if the Kill/Capture program does make the situation on the ground worse. Oh, and it's got some badass UAV footage. Now you see 3 insurgents in a field, Hellfire, Boom, now you don't.
 

Ali

gunnin down fools in style
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it shows you live recordings from when it happend, shows you the blood, shows you him being carried away, shows you him laying face first on the floor and everything, seriously upsetting!
also the bullet missed his bullet proof Armour plates in his vest by an inch and hit him directly, that particular day was friday the 13th...
 

Bon

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Feb 22, 2006
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Will have to watch it.

On a related note, anyone see America's Secret Killers on Ch4 on Monday? It's about the Kill / Capture campaign run by JSOC in Afghanistan and Pakistan. A bit biased (in favour of teh Taliban), but it makes you wonder if the Kill/Capture program does make the situation on the ground worse. Oh, and it's got some badass UAV footage. Now you see 3 insurgents in a field, Hellfire, Boom, now you don't.

I haven't made my mind up on this show yet. I can understand both points of view, but I think americas "blanket killings" are going to have the effect of drawing more people into the taliban, but on the other wise, why would you want to risk joining up with them in a war they clearly can not win.

It felt like a lot of stuff in that show was ommited on purpose which would probably sway the opinion massively in one side.
 

DJForbes

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Jun 5, 2009
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yeah i watched it. was upsetting not because the man died doing his job which yes was upsetting just not the most upsetting part but because of all the haters here in the Uk who do not support out nations troops 101% no matter what.

protesters on the street of london etc should be arested for the distress the cause to the soldiers, there loved ones and everyone else who loves th UK


sorry a little of topic
 
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Buddha 3

Hamfist McPunchalot
I haven't made my mind up on this show yet. I can understand both points of view, but I think americas "blanket killings" are going to have the effect of drawing more people into the taliban, but on the other wise, why would you want to risk joining up with them in a war they clearly can not win.

It felt like a lot of stuff in that show was ommited on purpose which would probably sway the opinion massively in one side.
You think the Taliban cannot win? Guess again.

It's no sure fire win for the Talibs, at all, but neither is it for ISAF and all others over there.
Hell, people thought the Mujaheddeen didn't stand a chance when Ivan invaded. We all know how that went.

Right now the US and its allies are fighting an uphill battle against an opponent that is quite happy to die for its ideals. The avarage US soldier is rather less happy to die.
The Taliban have the huge advantage of being 100% able to blend into the population when you come looking for them. It's not a simple case of any man with a gun is a Taliban, men are given guns as birthday presents over there. It's safe to assume there is at least one in every household. This makes identifying your enemy rather difficult.
The US doesn't have the support of the local people. Far from it. They are losing the battle for the hearts and minds by the same stupid mistakes as in Vietnam. Besides that, what the avarage Afghan man wants is not that much unlike what the Taliban want. It is however a million miles from what the US wants.

Despite almost ten years of fighting, the country is far from pacified. In fact, it's getting more unsafe currently.
The vast technological edge the coalition has is of little use on the strategic level. It simply does them no good at all.

The problem is that after Vietnam, the US decided it would never fight a war like that again. So it started gearing up and training for a stand up fight and they did so spectacularly well, case in point being Desert Storm in '91. The problem is that because of this strategic philosophy, any lessons learned from Vietnam were ignored and discarded. Now they are just repeating the same mistakes again, since this is anything but a straight up fight. A war with an enemy like the Taliban, which does not adhere to normal military logic, a so-called low intensity conflict (LIC), should be fought with just that, low intensity. There is no sense in sending out tanks and IFV's to crush the sh*t out of anything that looks at you wrong, if what you need to do is get the support of the people. A conflict like that should be mostly handled by special forces. These men do much more than the flashy stuff like blowing holes in Osama, many of them dress like and live amongst the Afghans. They provide local medical aid, they teach the locals many things besides just fighting. Many of these guys grit their teeth when a full US division comes blasting through their area, because in a few short minutes, they will have wrecked what has taken years to build.

The problem is that special forces are just that, special. As such there are not many of them. So you will always need support from regular troops, but these people need to ditch their fortress mentality. Get out there, get in touch with the locals, help them and spend tons of time among them. The Dutch did this a lot when they were over there, I know the Brits do it, many others do it, but it only takes a few f*ck ups to undo all that hard work. The Dutch made some big mistakes in bombarding a few villages with our shiny, new PzH2000, the Brits probably made some mistakes too, but all that is dwarfed by the attitude of the avarage US serviceman. They will just blow the crap out of anything, brag about it and stick it on youtube. And the avarage Afghan will not really see the difference between the US forces and the other allies. They will just see foreigners...

So I wouldn't go putting money on the Taliban rolling over and playing dead just yet.
 
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Robbo

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Once again, a somewhat sobre yet enlightening take on this from Jay [Buddha] that leaves your mind pondering the total futility of it all ... good post Jay !
 

Robbo

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yeah i watched it. was upsetting not because the man died doing his job which yes was upsetting just not the most upsetting part but because of all the haters here in the Uk who do not support out nations troops 101% no matter what.

protesters on the street of london etc should be arested for the distress the cause to the soldiers, there loved ones and everyone else who loves th UK


sorry a little of topic
I can't think of anything more galling and hate-instilling than the scum who rally to protest against our troops out there ... none of us want them out there but they are putting their lives on the line, and for what???

It actually doesn't matter what, they are OUR guys and that's what counts, and if OUR guys are not YOUR guys, then FUHK OFF HOME!!! coz we don't want you here in our country, and you don't deserve to be part of the nation we have built .. no matter what democratic thinking would have us believe.
 
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