Is tournament paintball heading in the right direction?

[Syd (NSPL)]

I think the important questions is: What do the players prefer playing?

Of course, the answer is going to be varied depending on the player that you ask, but the proof is in the eating. A lot of players have embraced the X-Ball varients we now have in the tournament scene - and many I talk to would hate to see a return to the lane-fest of 7-Man or the slow turn-arounds of standard 5-man.

There is a varying demand for all formats currently played and I think it is way to easy to lay the blame of a downturn in the sport at one formats door. If X-Ball varients weren't popular then we wouldn't have teams competing in those divisions. This thread seems like a knee jerk reaction to Joy's demise. But think about it logically, Joy have been around for a long time and have always been a close-nit group. These guys were not going to want to continue playing competitive paintball forever. Its not the end of the paintball world.

Tournament paintball is an ever evolving, young sport. It's going to have its ups and downs. X-Ball changed the demographic of the player base and that means it will take some time for things to even out. Throw a world-wide economic downturn in to the middle of that transition phase and we are bound to see a few more downs than ups as paintball is an expensive passtime.

To me, the X-Ball varients make paintball more of a competitive sport and have little to do with viewability. Many players love the format and the demand it puts upon themselves and their teams. Sure, its still not perfect and the sport will continue to evolve, but condemning the format as the reason for our sports "demise" is foolish in my mind.

Let those players that want to play in the woods, play in the woods. Let those that want to play standard 5-man, play standard 5-man. Let those that want to play new attempts to change the games formats (such as the formula-5) play those. And let those that want to play X-Ball, play X-Ball. Let everyone enjoy the game they like to play and enjoy the ride as our sport continues down its path of development and change.

 

[stongle]

The tournie scene was at its peak just before we got ramping followed by X-ball and current Race to formats
UK Tournie player numbers have been on the decline since the introduction of ramping and X-Ball.

Wrong. XBall was first, ramping followed. In Europe both Millennium X Ball and Open X predate the introduction of Ramping. The 2 are quite different issues and often mixed up incorrectly. Ramping actually slowed down the guns being used as it introdcued a ROF Cap. Anyone who played X Ball pre-ramping will tell you Guns had never (nor since) been so fast. Un-capped Semi with loosely controlled gun rules is different to anything the tournament players today play.

 

[Syd (NSPL)]

The tournie scene was at its peak just before we got ramping followed by X-ball and current Race to formats
UK Tournie player numbers have been on the decline since the introduction of ramping and X-Ball.

In fact, apart from a brief honeymoon period when Sup'Air was new and exciting, its been on the decline ever since we came out of the woods. And that's perfectly understandable and explainable. We fragmented the game of paintball and took competition paintball in a totally new direction that, ultimately, didn't suit a large proportion of the existing player base.

We are still feeling the impact of this change, but things are balancing out. What will be the end result? Obviously, nobody knows - but it sure is exciting to be involved in it all and I eagerly await the next chapter without a sense of impending doom.

 

[Robbo]

This is one occasion when I'm not really that happy in shouting, 'I told you so, I told you so'.

I predicted this would happen and told the Millennium guys 'face to face' we would see it but the XBall format went charging on completely oblivious to all the signs surrounding it ......

Dave284, it's a good, and also necessary thing that we get this repetition.

Firstly, how many articles in newspapers have we seen covering the allocation of the 2018 football world cup?

Bad news sells mate..... and it sells time and time again and that's because people like to constantly read about the darker elements of life and this of course extends to our respective sports.

And Dave ... if you don't wanna take part in it, or indeed read any of it ... just pass, it's easy mate.

As for what we do about it ?
I have blueprinted my ideas about taking tourney ball back to 7 man; this would solve our problems, not all of them granted but it would provide a much more appropriate parachute format for those guys migrating out of woodland paintball into the tournament way of life.

At the moment they are confronted with Xball or its derivatives and it's too much of a crash bang wallop of a game costing far too much money for far too less playing time.. we need to go back to a more expressive game, a game that is fun to play, gives value for money and inspires people to play.

XBall does none of these and can NEVER provide what we need right now to turn the tide.

We need to reorganize some form or coherent representation to the Millennium and then MAKE them change ... it's in our power to, I am damned sure of that, it's just we can't be arsed to get up off our arse and do something about it, we got far too many armchair activists who love to moan but can't do anything that requires a modicum of effort.

It's shameful, it really is .... change never happens because people sit on their ass ... change happens because people make it so .....

Fuhkin tell the MIllennium to go back to 7 man or you will boycott their events .... if you guys have the bollcoks to go with it, you'll not only save the game we all love but you'll also ensure yourselves of much better value for money ... I'll help as much as is needed but FFS guys I ain't gonna, and can't do it all .... and after all, the power lies with you guys, I might weild influence but it's NOTHING without you!

 

[Exile]

Let those players that want to play in the woods, play in the woods. Let those that want to play standard 5-man, play standard 5-man. Let those that want to play new attempts to change the games formats (such as the formula-5) play those. And let those that want to play X-Ball, play X-Ball. Let everyone enjoy the game they like to play and enjoy the ride as our sport continues down its path of development and change.

With you all the way here. Also the current race-to format should not be thought of as X-Ball, which died in Europe at the end of 2004. I am fortunate to have played both at an open/high Millennium-level and the near-herculean logistical efforts involved in keeping a full-blown X-ball team going for a season far outweighed the joy of playing it imho. The current Race-to format is much easier on teams/logistics and more importantly costs.

Also the question must be asked, if the multi-point format is so inherently flawed, then why did the NPPL trial a 7man version of it for their finals in Vegas this year with a view to rolling it out as the Pro format for next?
If the Millennium and PSP are ignoring their customer base, then is the NPPL going the same way or is this constant harping on about the past just a case of rose-tinted glasses.

We should also take into account the diversification of paintball from the golden years - when the Preds ruled the roost over here, paintball was played competitively in far fewer countries than today, today it is much more of a global past time and countries that are more prevalent in the rankings today were simply not competing back then due to legal issues (Germany) and financial/social ones (like Russia and the former Eastern Bloc).

Now I'm not taking anything away from Marcus - he was (and to a degree still is) the gold standard in terms of preparation, organisation and motivating a competitive paintball team but is the slower game of old necessarily more "skilful" than today? Or is it just as skilful but merely more physically demanding - like the difference between racing a car around the back roads on a track day and competing in the World Rally? As I get older, I find it harder and harder to keep up with the younger guys on my squad, but that for me at least is natural. Every sport has an age limit where players find it harder to compete, it's just a part of life to me.

Paintball today, at all levels, offers so much more choice - even if overall players numbers were holding, the larger numbers of Scenario/Big games/Milsim would fragment our player base as people who used to have a choice of Walk-on or Tourney now have other, perhaps much better fit for them, niches to play.

 

[Tony Harrison]

A couple of factors that I think is killing X-Ball is cost and the enjoyment factor.

It's a tough job to keep a team together and play a full season in one of the major leagues - you need serious support to do it.

As for having a choice of what to play, I agree that this is the great thing about paintball.

However, we seem to be focussed on playing and practicing X-ball and burning through paint at huge rates.

There is not a single 7-man circuit in the UK, compared to the dominance of X-ball.

Meanwhile, the scenario scene is flourishing, because all you need to do is show up and enjoy yourself - no pressure.

Pete - I remember you posting that you had a chat lined up with Stephen Baldwin of the MS.

I lost track of it, so is that still in the pipeline, or has it already happened?

 

[Syd (NSPL)]

In my experience, 7-Man eats up just as much paint and is less enjoyable because play is focussed on getting a couple of Gs before doing much else due to the number of players on the field. This is what I meant when I said 7-Man is a "lane-fest". If you enjoy standing behind a bunker and shooting a lane, then great. If not, 7-Man quickly gets boring.

Take a professional team out of Race-To-4 and in to 7-Man, and will they have less demands on them in the season? I can't see that they would. They would still want to train and compete just as hard, wouldn't they? They would need a similar amount of players.

There is no 7-man league in the UK because it died a death - there was no demand for it. Trust me on that one.

There are, however, plenty of standard 5-Man divisions. In fact, the majority of UK teams compete in 5-man. This is a great format to keep a control on costs and requires a manageable (most of the time) amount of players.

"X-Ball" is not dominate.

I get the feeling common sense is falling on death ears here.

 

[Tony Harrison]

OK, let's talk about common sense.

What single thing would result in a huge saving to teams?

Not releasing field layouts before an event.

This would remove the pressure on teams to play the layout prior to the event, and give a huge saving on paint. This would cost the event organisers nothing.

It would also reintroduce the old school skill of wlaking the field on the day of the event.

If Pete could get the MS to agree to this, and other leagues followed suit, it would be a significant saving for teams, allowing them to play more events.

 

[Tony Harrison]

I should point out that the idea of not releasing field layouts isn't mine - Baca Loco first suggested it in 2008.

 

[Missy-Q]

Jonathan, it seems like you are saying 'We need to make it cheaper for the players to play'

Is that what your basic context is?

If so, then I think you are dead wrong. It's not about price. It's about value.