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The "bling" factor - A discussion

Gair333

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May 17, 2005
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Again it's perspective. For somone like me with quite a bit of debt after uni, a house, bills, car etc etc £300 is quite a bit of money. And to joe and his friends too. I have quite a bit of disposable income but I enjoy other things in life aswell. I cannot personally justify spending £800 on somthing I may use twice a month.
 
Jun 11, 2008
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You cut your cloth to suit your needs and pocket. My first gun cost a months wage. If I spent a grand on a gun now it wouldn't cost me a months wage but it's a massive chunk of my disposable income. Paintball put me 5k in debt due to bad business decisions and poor budgeting.
We live in a society that often feels because it's available I have a right to own it. Well guess what you don't. You hVe to work for it.
Manufacturers aren't responsible for you debt situation, you are.
I'll generalise, as I live near a university city, and say if studentsspent less time on the €$¥€ student loans wouldn't be an issue.
My investment in paintball has paid me back plenty. I didn't get that through moaning cos I was disadvantaged. I got it by getting off my arse and earning it.
 

Fisz

Ka mate!
Jun 10, 2006
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Gair,

I do not presume to know you, I am merely going by what you wrote and I am not trying to insult or belittle you. I am still waiting for an answer from you about your experience in business, which will help me to better understand how well informed you are as to the costs involved in all different aspects of the paintball industry.

As to your question about why the industry is suffering, the answer I would give you would be only an opinion of mine and mine alone - I do work in this industry and I am painfully aware of all the factors that limit us on a daily basis in what we do and what we would like to do. Unfortunately, because I am not entirely a private person on here and do represent the company I work for I cannot freely discuss with you this particular topic.
 

Lovetone

Peter Pan of Paintball
Feb 25, 2005
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Manchestoh
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Again it's perspective. For somone like me with quite a bit of debt after uni, a house, bills, car etc etc £300 is quite a bit of money. And to joe and his friends too. I have quite a bit of disposable income but I enjoy other things in life aswell. I cannot personally justify spending £800 on somthing I may use twice a month.
Why are you now jumping between £300 and £800?
Debt after uni - that gets taken out your wages if its student loan, so its fairly transparent.
Should affect your income dramatically. Unless its changed its 9% of anything over £15k earned pa.

You also kind of answered your own complaint in your statement, you have disposable income but you like other things to. You maybe wouldnt be so concerned with the outlay for kit, if you curtailed those "other" things a bit. Its a question of balance...and noone ever said pb was cheap.

FWIW I used to play regularly on my first job (£17k) with a £100k mortgage and all the other gubbins.
 

Gair333

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May 17, 2005
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As to your question about why the industry is suffering, the answer I would give you would be only an opinion of mine and mine alone - I do work in this industry and I am painfully aware of all the factors that limit us on a daily basis in what we do and what we would like to do. Unfortunately, because I am not entirely a private person on here and do represent the company I work for I cannot freely discuss with you this particular topic.
That's fine, I wouldn't expect you to nor would I want you to.

As for my business experience I own half of a successful recruitment research company turning over £400000 PA with profits of £130000 in the last fiscal year.
The wage me and the other director take could be alot more but we wish to expand the business from the 8 staff we have now to 18 and upgrade our offices to compliment it.

Why do I complain about money you ask? Because I work hard for it, I'm sure everyone here does and because I work hard for it I don't let go of it easily. Your example of being 5k in debt from paintball (i assume playing and the such rather than buying stocketc) is admirable in that you love the sport so much but foolish in a way that it is, at the moment, a hobby where if you succeed you get very little back

Working in recruitment I've a lot of experience in different industries but paintball has yet to come which is odd considering it needs the right leadership. This being said, I've been around long enough to learn more than enough about the industry as a whole and why it's failing. Paintball is a luxery and with the recession luxeries get cut first for joe average. If joe can't justify spending £200 on playing a month Mrs Joe won't be very happy... And to stop
the wrath of his wife, he is forced to quit.

You also kind of answered your own complaint in your statement, you have disposable income but you like other things to. You maybe wouldnt be so concerned with the outlay for kit, if you curtailed those "other" things a bit. Its a question of balance...and noone ever said pb was cheap.
Yes I like other things such as going on holiday, taking my finacee for dinner and generally just doing nice and cool **** on the weekends. Paintball/life balance is extremely important and I think I've hit that balance but for others paintball comes first. As for my kit bag I really don't care whats in it. I've got a mini, and egg 2 and 0.8 fibre wrap. it shoots fine and hasn't broken

But again this is a discussion, let's not make it personal and let us discuss why you all think the industry is on it's knees if indeed it is. I've put forward my points and all I've heard back is "you know nothing" and "if you can't afford it don't do it".

This is not about me as an individual and I have put forward my points: There is not enough participation, the industry is getting greedy and bleeding regular paintballers instead of focusing on it becoming more accessable and Joe Avarage has not a chance of participation if the prices for even the started kit including playing gear stays so high.
 

Fisz

Ka mate!
Jun 10, 2006
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But again this is a discussion, let's not make it personal and let us discuss why you all think the industry is on it's knees if indeed it is. I've put forward my points and all I've heard back is "you know nothing" and "if you can't afford it don't do it".
I would have thought that my posts amount to a little bit more than just "you know nothing". I feel a little bit offended by that as I've attempted to put things to light that are quite often overlooked when making broad assumptions about the costs involved.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with a CNC machinist the other day. He was stating, much like you, that the products are overpriced and that he could make all the parts for a fraction of the cost on the machines he works with. When asked to explain, he mentioned that the materials will cost just a couple pounds and he can program the machines pretty quickly. That's when I asked him about the following: cost of running the machine, cost of the employee operating the machine, how many hours he take to write the code and how much he is paid per hour, who will design the product, who will test the product, who will ship it, what is the rent, how much the CAD software costs, how much does he pay for the accountant to work his paperwork, how much is the box, how much is the shipping to dealers, how much is marketing... He couldn't provide any answers beyond "I don't know" or "I didn't think about that". He is very good at working with metal as an employee of the company and based all his "calculations" on the very narrow part of what is needed to make and sell a paintball marker.
 

Gair333

Active Member
May 17, 2005
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It's a broad term I used rather than quoting everything, but the premise remains the same. Take it as more an abriviation than an insult

How ever you've only just shed light. you're previous posts have been very much along those lines with a bit of history. When you break down costs like you just have it becomes clearer and provides a solid argument which is what I've been looking for. Thank you!

I'll quite happily come down review your books with you, I would actually love to learn more about the business side of the sport and if I can help in anyway I'd be more than happy to. Just PM me if you feel you'd like to