Some people in this thread are clueless about basic business economics. I suggest everybody reads Fisz's posts, he knows what he's saying.
The "bling" factor - A discussion
- Thread starter Gair333
- Start date
I'm saying lower the prices in general, percieved value **** only works in the niche in this industry.
To expand from the niche stage we need the sport to become accessable to anyone! The first port of call is to lower the prices to REALISTIC levels. The second is to lose this **** ego business. New players feel intimidated and pressured to get the best kit and most of these players are kids! Football is popular because anyone can grab 5 mates and a can and play with no **** from anyone (apart from the old lady who had her window smashed!)
As soon as somone wants to play paintball its buying atleast £300 worth of kit, £30 for a box of paint and £35 to play in a tournament if he's joined a team. Kids should not be expected to buy a £1000 marker, travel 600 miles ato have fun. most people here started plaing between 15 and 18 and this community is really small in comparison to other x-games.
We need these players to survive in the long term other wise more companies are going to go down. We need newbies as addicted as we are ( and yes we are addicted!) and the short sightedness and brand stregnth of the industry will be its downfall.
To expand from the niche stage we need the sport to become accessable to anyone! The first port of call is to lower the prices to REALISTIC levels. The second is to lose this **** ego business. New players feel intimidated and pressured to get the best kit and most of these players are kids! Football is popular because anyone can grab 5 mates and a can and play with no **** from anyone (apart from the old lady who had her window smashed!)
As soon as somone wants to play paintball its buying atleast £300 worth of kit, £30 for a box of paint and £35 to play in a tournament if he's joined a team. Kids should not be expected to buy a £1000 marker, travel 600 miles ato have fun. most people here started plaing between 15 and 18 and this community is really small in comparison to other x-games.
We need these players to survive in the long term other wise more companies are going to go down. We need newbies as addicted as we are ( and yes we are addicted!) and the short sightedness and brand stregnth of the industry will be its downfall.
Taking the consumables out of it £300 to set up is peanuts and at the lower end of the market manufacturers don't make a profit worth talking about unless they shift volume - even then the market is so tight it's not funny.
The margin for top end markers is larger but for that you can more or less pick a style/spec to suit yourself.
The Market can't get cheaper without stalling and going into freefall.
The margin for top end markers is larger but for that you can more or less pick a style/spec to suit yourself.
The Market can't get cheaper without stalling and going into freefall.
I agree with one of the comments before about there being a step missing in purchasing because there is.
If £300 is peanuts I'll take the shells...
let's be a little clearer. I'm not digging at small shops like just or bz etc but more the multinationals llike dye, kee and eclipse.
They have enough profit from sales in other countries to be to drive the prices down world wide. Simple economics for those of you that try throwing it around... Limited companies that survive follow the following mantra: Make the best quality product, selling for the lowest possible price while paying the highest possible wages.
If £300 is peanuts I'll take the shells...
let's be a little clearer. I'm not digging at small shops like just or bz etc but more the multinationals llike dye, kee and eclipse.
They have enough profit from sales in other countries to be to drive the prices down world wide. Simple economics for those of you that try throwing it around... Limited companies that survive follow the following mantra: Make the best quality product, selling for the lowest possible price while paying the highest possible wages.
this thread has aids
Young gair I dunno wtf you are on but how can you expect equipment to get any cheaper really? its piss cheap as it is. You can get an entry level 10bps electro for around £150ish.
The real problem with paintball is the sustained outlay of cash on training, paint, transport, and events. The price of a marker set up for a year (Should) pale in comparison to the amount you spend on the rest of it.
Regardless, if the person entering the sport does some basic research, they can pick up high end guns from 3-5 years ago for the price of a new entry level, and these have pretty much all the bells and whistles youll need.
I am also tired of this "if you can lift a marker set up you are a pussy" rhetoric.
fact of the matter is, the lighter the setup, the easier handled it is, regardless of your physique.
I used to run an 02 eclipse cocker when I started, and compared to say, the ego 7 i had with a stako bottle, the difference was night and day, and it definitely had a positive effect on my game.
Personally I think there is no pressure to have the latest and greatest; anyone who bows to such peer pressure either has the expendable income and desire to do so (nothing wrong with that) or has helpful parents id guess. I think the op smacks of a tiny bit of jealousy perhaps.
FWIW, I could walk out tommorow (if I wasnt stuck in Denmark) and buy every top end gun and have change from my bank balance. The reason I dont is many fold.
1 - I dont need more than 1 gun
2 - I dont think paintball guns are worth £800- 1000, when I can get last seasons for 30% of that price in some cases.
3 - I have other things I like to do with my money too, such as save it for housebuying
4 - I can get similar performance from last seasons models
5 - I am waiting for the GEO 2
Young gair I dunno wtf you are on but how can you expect equipment to get any cheaper really? its piss cheap as it is. You can get an entry level 10bps electro for around £150ish.
The real problem with paintball is the sustained outlay of cash on training, paint, transport, and events. The price of a marker set up for a year (Should) pale in comparison to the amount you spend on the rest of it.
Regardless, if the person entering the sport does some basic research, they can pick up high end guns from 3-5 years ago for the price of a new entry level, and these have pretty much all the bells and whistles youll need.
I am also tired of this "if you can lift a marker set up you are a pussy" rhetoric.
fact of the matter is, the lighter the setup, the easier handled it is, regardless of your physique.
I used to run an 02 eclipse cocker when I started, and compared to say, the ego 7 i had with a stako bottle, the difference was night and day, and it definitely had a positive effect on my game.
Personally I think there is no pressure to have the latest and greatest; anyone who bows to such peer pressure either has the expendable income and desire to do so (nothing wrong with that) or has helpful parents id guess. I think the op smacks of a tiny bit of jealousy perhaps.
FWIW, I could walk out tommorow (if I wasnt stuck in Denmark) and buy every top end gun and have change from my bank balance. The reason I dont is many fold.
1 - I dont need more than 1 gun
2 - I dont think paintball guns are worth £800- 1000, when I can get last seasons for 30% of that price in some cases.
3 - I have other things I like to do with my money too, such as save it for housebuying
4 - I can get similar performance from last seasons models
5 - I am waiting for the GEO 2
Yes £300 is peanuts - this gets you kitted out adequately to compete on the tourney scene.
I don't get you beef about the larger companies in paintball, do you think their success came from ripping off customers?? Try watching planets unemployable and consider whether your prepared to finish at the end of a weeks work with zero to show for it.
They got where they are because they understand the market, something clearly lacking in parts of this thread.
I don't get you beef about the larger companies in paintball, do you think their success came from ripping off customers?? Try watching planets unemployable and consider whether your prepared to finish at the end of a weeks work with zero to show for it.
They got where they are because they understand the market, something clearly lacking in parts of this thread.
Let's stop right here.
As to the perceived value thing, it works in every industry out there. You drink Coke instead of Lidl Cola because of the perceived value, you buy an iPhone because of the perceived value... and so on and on...
I'm getting bloody tired of people who bring up a sport like football to show where we're not and we will never be...Why? because paintball is not football - paintball can't be played everywhere, it requires investment into equipment and infrastructure and commitment. Paintball is like Golf...But no one ever compares one to the other because then this whole thread would have absolutely no frakking sense. Also, paintball is like boxing, in that taking part in it means you should step out of your comfort zone and prepare yourself for some bruising. Boxing or MMA are not sports with massive participation...I wonder why? It's not the price of the boxing gloves which can be had for cheap at pretty much every sports equipment store, that's for sure.
Gair, you are advocating realistic prices on products without having the knowledge of the costs involved in bringing a product like that to the market, marketing it, providing support, etc...
You also seem to be completely oblivious to the costs of manufacturing paintballs and you don't seem to want to learn. There is currently no way for the manufacturers to lower the prices without changing the experience of paintball significantly (.50 cal, stopping using PEG completely) and even then, the way the world works those savings will not bring about the revolution that you so desire.
You're advocating that the sport needs to become accessible to anyone. But in order to do that, someone must promote it to the public at large...That means spending money, but even now the manufacturers are not exactly swimming in it (maybe except the Paintball Super Corporation, but they have financial backing from an investment fund) and if they would lower prices to level ACCEPTABLE TO YOU, they would not have any money to promote themselves or the sport and within a year or two there would be no industry whatsoever if they kept that course. So the players would only survive as long as the industry would, and in your scenario that wouldn't be long.
Do you have any experience in running a manufacturing business? or any business for that matter?
Oh and one final point...
There is an activity out there, much like paintball in many ways but quite a lot cheaper... It's called Airsoft. You can get 500 balls for a couple quids, guns can be had for 20 pounds at the lowest level and somehow it's not becoming a public activity. It's the domain of afficionados and kids whose parents were stupid enough to buy a pistol at the toy store and who realise to their horror that having a juvenile with a thing that can smash things and hurt people is not really something they're comfortable with.
There is an activity out there, much like paintball in many ways but quite a lot cheaper... It's called Airsoft. You can get 500 balls for a couple quids, guns can be had for 20 pounds at the lowest level and somehow it's not becoming a public activity. It's the domain of afficionados and kids whose parents were stupid enough to buy a pistol at the toy store and who realise to their horror that having a juvenile with a thing that can smash things and hurt people is not really something they're comfortable with.
I think I said this in the first post...
but people watch, bet and know about it. how many people here hve had to explain tournament paintball to someone?
Please do not presume to know me. I am not ignorant to the facts nor do I take it upon myself to dish out other peoples qualifactions for them.
Technology has come so far even in these last ten years. Manufacturing processes have been refined, simplified and will continue to do so. These prodution methods should drive costs down but have thus far seemed to have stayed the same. CAD has improved hugely taking away alot of the play testing required in 2000.
Ask yourself: why is the industry suffering in the first place?
Again please don't presume to know me.
£300 is alot of money to most people. if you have the financial freedom to not care about it then really, good for you.