Other questions.. the CO2 cylinder!

[Aldo]

Hi guys! Today I got my (second hand) Spyder MR1! This is beautiful! (yeah I am just a noob!).
The only bad thing is that it's provided with a CO2 cylinder instead a HPA
I am a bit sad cause I need to fill this cylinder and it's not an easy thing to do here, where I live.

Some questions (really noob questions I think..) :

1) My CO2 cylinder is a 20oz cylinder so what is the pressure of a CO2 20oz completly filled cylinder?

2) Some peoples told me I can fill this cylinder using a bar beer machine.
This beer machine using CO2 tank to work so I am thinking to use an adaptor to fill my cylinder.
Is that possible? What are the main problems I could to face if I try to fill my cylinder using this beer machine?

3) This beer machine tank is a 80 cm tank and I notice the pressure indicator show 120psi. Is that enough to think to fill my cylinder with the right pressure?

4) If I could fill my cylinder but with wrong pressure then I could to get some damage to my marker?

Thank you!

 

[Tom]

CO2 is a liquid/gas and does not fill by pressure but by weight. It will operate at 850psi when used
(This is the reason air cylinder regulators were originaly set at 850psi)

Air & CO2 cylinders have burst disks fitted that will fail if overfilled.

Filling co2 is not simple, you should start with an empty cylinder (if not already empty then draining will chill the cylinder which will aid you getting a full fill)

I will link a video on filling.
But I'd recommend using whatever syste the site you play at uses. If co2 then just bring your cylinder and get them to fill
If air then that is better, either get a 3000psi steel/aluminium at about £30/£40 or a site will lend you one for games for a while

 

[Aldo]

mm interesting..
"CO2 is a liquid/gas and does not fill by pressure but by weight. It will operate at 850psi when used"
So I can think to fill my cylinder using that 80cm tank showing me 120psi?

"Air & CO2 cylinders have burst disks fitted that will fail if overfilled."
mmm this mean that if I get a bit over that full I risk to damage the CO2 cylinder?

"But I'd recommend using whatever syste the site you play at uses. If co2 then just bring your cylinder and get them to fill"
Yeah I know, but I have the nearest place at 80km... :\

"If air then that is better, either get a 3000psi steel/aluminium at about £30/£40 or a site will lend you one for games for a while"
This mean HPA can give more power and/or more shoots availables before to get the cylinder empty?

Last question:
Using my MR1 marker can I use just this HPA cylinder?:
http://www.pbg62-paintball.it/bombola-aria-08-alu-3000-psi-p-67.html

I asking that just 'cause I notice I can buy this cylinder too:
http://www.pbg62-paintball.it/bombola-air-guerrilla-08l-preset-3000-psi-p-20748.html


Maybe the second cylinder is ready to use while first cylinder have not the marker adaptor?
and.. can I use the adaptor in my CO2 cylinder to make the first linked cylinder can be mounted on my MR1?

(sorry for my weak english..)

 

[Tom]

quote="Aldo, post: 1483811, member: 34925"mm interesting..
"CO2 is a liquid/gas and does not fill by pressure but by weight. It will operate at 850psi when used"
So I can think to fill my cylinder using that 80cm tank showing me 120psi?
I don't want to say yes, as I'm not familiar with the beer tank.
A difficulty you will have is that you want to get liquid co2 into your paintball cylinder, gassy co2 will give you less.
When you shoot you want the co2 to come out as a gas.
So when filling you want liquid to come from the bottom of the source so may need a 'syphon' tube to ensure it comes from the bottom.
When shooting you would be best with an 'anti syphon' tube so that you get co2 in its gas form.
(The anti syphon tube is a bent tube that needs to be fitted facing up and aligned to match your gun)
This will not be essential with the gun that you currently have.


"Air & CO2 cylinders have burst disks fitted that will fail if overfilled."
mmm this mean that if I get a bit over that full I risk to damage the CO2 cylinder?
Because of the burst disk you will not damage the cylinder, but would have to replace the burst disk.
To avoid this first empty your co2, then measure the weight, and add no more then it is designed for (e.g. 20oz cylinder means you can add 20oz of co2 to its weight)


"But I'd recommend using whatever syste the site you play at uses. If co2 then just bring your cylinder and get them to fill"
Yeah I know, but I have the nearest place at 80km... :\
Sorry - I forgot you were in Europe, and sites are a distance away!


"If air then that is better, either get a 3000psi steel/aluminium at about £30/£40 or a site will lend you one for games for a while"
This mean HPA can give more power and/or more shoots availables before to get the cylinder empty?
You may get more shots per fill with co2. But air is a better system. (You can only use the same velocity/power for ai or co2)
As you are a distance from sites it may be better for you to us an HPA cylinder, and to fill using a diving air cylinder. You will need a fill station.




Last question:
Using my MR1 marker can I use just this HPA cylinder?:
http://www.pbg62-paintball.it/bombola-aria-08-alu-3000-psi-p-67.html
This is only the cylinder and does not have a regulator. So you could use it only if you buy a regulator as well
(What you have referred to below as 'marker adaptor')

I asking that just 'cause I notice I can buy this cylinder too:
http://www.pbg62-paintball.it/bombola-air-guerrilla-08l-preset-3000-psi-p-20748.html
Yes - this one has the 'regulator' and is ready to use when it has been filled


Maybe the second cylinder is ready to use while first cylinder have not the marker adaptor?
and.. can I use the adaptor in my CO2 cylinder to make the first linked cylinder can be mounted on my MR1?
You cannot use the CO2 adaptor on the air cylinder (It is only for CO2)


(sorry for my weak english..)(/quote)

I would recommend either of these:
http://www.pbg62-paintball.it/bombola-air-guerrilla-08l-preset-3000-psi-p-20748.html
http://www.pbg62-paintball.it/bombola-aria-08l-preset-3000-psi-annex-p-58.html

You can use a diving cylinder to fill like this
(Note he makes a mistake at the end - if you have more in your paintball cylinder then it will not go back into the diving cylinder)
If using a diving cylinder you still do not want to fill your paintball cylinder to the maximum. If you have 3000psi in a diving cylinder then only fill your paintball cylinder to about 2500psi, you then manage to fill more times before the pressure gets too low

 

[Aldo]

Really thanks Tommikka. The refill matter is damn complex! and I think I need to buy a HPA cylinder soon. Less problematics and sure it's more easy to refill.
Thx again!

 

[Gee Tee]

If you want to fill CO2 bottles you need a proper fill & purge rig, bulk cylinder filled with liquid CO2, and a set of scales. Also a good idea to wear gloves and safety glasses while doing it. You can get nasty freeze burns from liquid CO2. Bottle pressure is dependant on outside air and bottle temperature. As bottle heats up (from outside air or sunlight for example) the pressure rises. Eventually this can blow the burst disc. The bottle also chills down as you use gas, further reducing bottle pressure. You use this purge/chilling routine when recharging to ensure a proper fill.

Avoiding this hassle is one reason the game switched to HPA on mass back in the late 90's. Co2 isn't very user friendly, expensive to buy in bulk, bad for the environment and performs poorly in cold weather conditions.

 

[Aldo]

Thx Gee Tee, I will buy a HPA cylinder soon.