Equipment Assessors...

[manike]

With all this talk of the legality of padding in shirts and issues with some guns and 'bounce' be it switch bounce or extra shots due to the gun's recoil. I think the major tournament series need to develop a group of people with the understanding and experience to asses equipment according to the rules and judge wether it is legal or not. And adjust the current rules or make new rules as necessary.

This will not be an easy position or thing to do.

There needs to be some independent assesment of such things. Maybe this is something for the likes of the disciplinary committee to be responsible for?

Gun Trigger Pulls

Certainly there were cases of some players being banned last year from events due to 'illegal triggers' (it happened at many events to my knowledge and I am not just talking about one incident).

I think the assessment of the penalty also needs to be relevant to the offence. Banning players from a tournament for a gun that occassionaly double fires (as I believed happened at Amsterdam) is not correct in my opinion.

In the USA at the World Cup if this happened you were just prevented from using the gun for that game.

If it's not an intentional cheat then the equipment should just not be allowed for that game until it is detuned. If it is intentional or very easy to achieve then maybe the player should be banned from that game etc... on up to the event for very severe circumstances of intentional cheating with equipment.

Maybe we have a standard test to asses what is a single shot per trigger pull?

Pulling it at a 'normal' pace and pulling it fast. Let's face it, no-one on the field is going to pull their trigger very slowly to get two shots so why are the guns being tested this way and people getting penalised on the results of such tests?

When pulling a trigger slowly I can get almost any electrical gun to fire two shots. I wouldn't have that happen on the field though.

I know I've argued the legality of FA before, but I also believe that to be a somewhat seperate issue. As well as safety concerns we also need some sensibility concerns? (Am I getting old or what? nah I just want to play and don't want to see people getting penalised unfairly).

Padded Shirts

Once you allow such an open interpretation of 'excessive' it is going to be abused. I'll copy in some of what I posted before about this...

If players are going to have padding for safety it should be implement as such and in the relevant areas.

If it's 'not excessive' then does this mean the padding is not doing the number one intention of safety implementation? If so then it shouldn't be allowed.

If it is doing the safety thing then it should only be allowed where there is a legitimate risk. Fronts of shoulders are not a legitimate location (coming from some one who stopped playing serious rugby due to shoulder dislocations and had to wear a shoulder support for years).

Previously padding has ONLY been allowed for safety issues and that ought to continue. It wasn't allowed on hoppers (only there to look good and get bounces) it was allowed on tanks (to avoid tank damage... and then secondly to look good.) The looking good part is second to the intention and use of the padding and should not be the deciding factor in it's use

Oh and I'm allowed to wear two jersey's right? Am I allowed one Dye 2003 on top of another? Or does that then become excessive? If one jersey is legal why wouldn't two be?

If two are legal then surely I could have that same amount of padding in just one jersey and it's not excessive... oh but then we get back to the 'if wearing one jersey is legal, is two?...'

You need to set a solid standard that can be assessed. I don't see how you can assess 'excessive' very easily and between different manufacturers, so in my opinion you shouldn't allow it at all.

Elbow pads on Fore arms

Tough one this, the modern game does justify padding on the forearms. It's also one heck of a bounce advantage given how we expose ourselves to play? Should it be allowed or not?

Head Protection

On and what about head protection? I wouldn't play without something on my head nowadays but what should be allowed? Some rolled up beany hats with two bandanna's must be taking it just a little too far, no? What about the guys with loose 'veils' flapping in the breeze to slow down the balls and stop them breaking... funny that exactly the way I did it with my indoor firing range works a treat.

 

[Baca Loco]

Despite the daunting length and Si's snoozefest style this is a legit subject for this forum so I've copied it over from SYB.
All the regional and local tournament series take their cues from the big boys and when the big boys are in disarray it effects everyone else.

 

[manike]

LMAO. I was gonna post it here, but thought I'd get jumped on and it be moved

I wonder if some people don't want to discuss this because they are currently getting away with things that give them a competitive advantage and that are in the 'grey area'?

Sometimes I have to write a lot to put my point across clearly without misinterpretation. Blame the engineer in me, oh and that's why my spelling sucks sometimes too

 

[TJ Lambini]

And it explains why you score so insanely high on tha boring-o-meter...

Jus kidding...seeing as Windler and Magued are the only ones sticking their heads above tha parapet - sorry, I mean around - let's hear what they gotta say for tha Mill...anyone around from PSP or NPPL to share their thoughts?

 

[manike]

Originally posted by TJ Lambini
And it explains why you score so insanely high on tha boring-o-meter...

Yeah, thank God I didn't study maths huh?

 

[Urban]

Interesting thread...

A seperate question from me, and maybe slightly aside from the intended thread, is are there any standards or specs to which paintball manufacturers must adher?

With regard to gun trigger pulls I broadly agree with what Manike is saying. However, the manufacturers need to check their products before they are released as much as the players need to look after them once they have them. My Impulse, an early model from last year I think (non-vision ready) would fire two balls from the first trigger pull every time I walked on the field with it at practice. Good job I was allowed the free shots over the chrono at tournaments or that would, under the rules suggested above, not have been allowed on the field. I hadn't modified it in any way, shape or form. It just double fired. Since I fitted the Voodoo Full Flow and new Ball Detant it has only done it once, at the Hilton Park Indoor, much to the chrono judges surprise...

For padded jerseys, I can't see why any part of the jersey should be padded. I mean, elbow padding?? Either your throwing yourself around the field, in which case you should have proper elbow pads, or your not, in which case what the bloody hell do you need elbow padding for? I can see no reason whatsoever for shoulder padding. It doesn't aid safety and it doesn't look cool... at least it didn't on Victoria Principle, Linda Grey, Joan Collins and the rest of the eighties "Soap Opera: Big Hair" brigade.

Elbow pads should be just that...Elbow pads. Not half the damn arm surely? Knee pads that extend someway down the shin seem slightly excessive to me but then I suppose that depends on how you slide.

Head protection should be defined as one layer and people can discuss and agree (haha!) on what is allowed to constitute that one layer, wether it be beanie or bandana. Any flapping rubbish needs to be removed.

All the above is just my humble opinion of course

Urban

 

[shamu]

I agree with the need for equipment assessors independant of the field refs. Two reasons for this are time and consistency.

Field refs have enough to do with running the games. They don't have enough time to check all the players for each game without affecting the schedule. Also, things like trigger bounce might be subjective from ref to ref. Having one authority for triggers, jerseys, stickers, etc, would ensure everyone held to the same standards.

 

[Red_Merkin]

Head protection should be defined as one layer and people can discuss and agree (haha!) on what is allowed to constitute that one layer, wether it be beanie or bandana. Any flapping rubbish needs to be removed.

In reality, the one area that should allow protection is your head. I agree with the flapping bits not being necessary, but any player that wants to wear something on their head to protect them selves should be allowed. As long as it's not excessive.

I've said before, if players want protection, they should have to use padding that has a plastic cap. This way there is no advantage given to having padding on your forarm or anywhere else. I think everyone could live with that.

 

[headrock6]

As I was reading this thread,I was a little discouraged by the way these things usually pan out..Ya know,some great ideas get floated around these boards but usually end up floating away into obscurity without ever really drawing any final conclusions..

Are we always gonna be a debating society,or can we actually make changes through our voices and opinions..Manike brought up the idea that the Millennium rule for banning players with trigger bounce for the tourney is not a correct one..And im pretty sure that most players on here would agree..But instead of us debating hopelessy about the rules,how bout we make a concerted effort to change the ones in question...

I mean how hard is it to petition for a rule change??If ya have majority of players who feel its unfair,then I see no reason why we as players cant get it changed..And understand im not just talking Millennium here..It should be for any player..Im a big believer in that players dont have a full understanding of their worth yet to the promoters..Without us,it just doesnt work and never will..Are we all so blinded by the love of the game that always choose to get steamrolled without a fight??

I think what im tryiing to get at here is that we want the game to move forward yet we leave it up to everyone else to hopefully get it done,and then get really pissed when it doesnt go our way..Last time I checked,the game belonged to us,so why haven't we taken it and ran with it yet??

Manikes ideas are valid and good ones..But what good are they if they just dissapear in a week when more threads take its place??And you know they're gonna pop up in 3 months again only to suffer the same fate ....

And im pretty sure Niall,Chuck,or Jerry wont punch us in the face for speaking out..But speaking out alone aint gonna get ya anywhere..Its gonna take a whole lot of us,and that there are,to get things done..Its up to us..

-6

Shamu-shouldnt you be shoveling today???

Not me..I finally figured out what my city taxes are good 4

 

[Beaker]

Manike.

You know I broadly agree with you on these kind of things.

But I don't get your point about the headgear.

True I think things should be clarified and enforced regarding thickness/approrpiate materials etc (Like no BK neoprene only towelling etc) But what's that about the "flapping bits"???

These are usually from long bandannas which flow down the players back. If anything they are a disdvantage as if the ball has missed his head but get's caught up in it it could still break. If it's flapping at the front fine, but dont see the problem if it's down the back, can't see it helping any.