Back Chat...

[scribble]

Is it ever acceptable for a player to talk back to a marshall? I have been thinking about this and personally decided that if all marshalls are trained to a consistent standard or maybe in the future if all marshalls are professional then my answer to this question would be no. I can already see problems with this. There is no doubt that a marshalls decision whether right or wrong can swing a game either positively or negatively for the teams concerned. I have been involved in games where a bad descision has crippled the end result badly. In a high pressure sport at the top end of the professional game of paintball i can see why a marshalls descision might be questioned. This questioning has to be when the decison by a marshall is made. If the player sits on his hands and accepts the marshalls choice and walks waiting to discuss the situation with the named marshall then after the game it is too late to question the decision and the game may be lost. As the pressures and performance expectations within the sport increase should a player just go on until a marshall pulls them? This seems to be happening more and more at the professional level unless clear tags are blatanly obvious and a player voluntarily walks.
i would like to know what other people think is acceptable and your comments and opinions are welcomed...

Thanks.

 

[camsmith]

The rules

Rule number 1 - The marshall is ALWAYS right.

Rule number 2 - If the marshall is wrong, see rule number 1.

(Rule number 3 - no poofters )

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Basically, whether we like it or not, any human official at any level in any sport can make a mistake. In a fast-paced sport such as paintball, if you allow players to argue with the marshall there and then, the marshall is not able to concentrate on the game and therefore even less able to do the remainder of his job correctly. This reduces both the safety and fairness of the rest of the game.

This is why the marshall is fully within their rights to pull a 1-4-1 as soon as you even begin to show dissent.

Sounds harsh, but if it was enforced better, there'd be a lot fewer problems.

Cam.

PS. Marshalls should not take this as a licence to be a c__t. With the adrenaline coursing through players' veins, it is inevitable that the occasional harsh word comes out (often, this is not even aimed at the marshalls). Remember that there are harsher penalties than 1-4-1 if the player decides to play on for instance. Make sure the player knows that they should be leaving the field, ignore them and get on with the rest of the match.

 

[scribble]

You make some ery valid points. Respecting the marshalls and also the marshall regardless of the teams they are marshalling should feel free and sometimes obliged to 1-4-1 when necessary without the fear of redemption froma player after the game. your point about back chat distracting a marshall from remaining duties is very good.

I think players would be more cooperative and less chatty if between fields in professional huge tournaments there was not such a variance between marshalling teams. Consistency to all teams and both teams playing on the field at that time will only help to keep players happy. I do not think as a sport we will ever fully eliminate back chat from the game. The sport is full of individuals, some passive, some fiery whom will always have something to say and regardless if a decision made by a marshall was right, wrong, terrible or good for this type of player they will always disagree and say something. Maybe it is up to team mates to keep fiery players under control so the team does not suffer with 1-4-1's and consequently lose advantage.

I would not like to be a marshall in a professional game because fo the speed, adrenaline and fact that one wrong call cannot be taken back and will black ball that marshall for the duration of the tournament. Human error can never be eliminated.

 

[JoseDominguez]

I don't agree with rule 3, I'd lose most of my back line.

 

[Avatar]

I think that some of the governing bodies in paintball
are going a bit sensorship mad.

I now in Rugby and Football (or soccer as some strange
people insist on calling it) after a foul has been given
against a player the camerra will zoom in on him and its
easy to lip read that he's F***ing and blinding about the
refs decision but the ref wont do anything about it.

Hell sometimes the player will even do it dirrectly at the
ref its very rare that this will lead to a greater form of
penalty.

If such "hot bloodedness" is so readily acceptable in these
sports, which I think its far to say are prity well established
as popular multi million/billion pound buisnesses, why do
people seem to think that paintball needs to be squeaky
clean to attract TV or serious sponsorship from outside the
industry?

 

[skullicious]

Last tourney we maxed a team and one of our players that grabbed the flag was contesting a dodgy call as he had some spray on his right hand side, paint was different colour to what the other team was shooting and there was noone to shoot him from that angle anyway.
After the ensuing argument we ended up losing 4 players and -25 penalty points by the end of it.

 

[Gibbsey]

Its a tough one, if you swear and blind all your gonna get is a 1-4-1 or worse, if you sit calm until the end of the game, its too late to rectify any mistakes that may have been made.

However in all professional sports mistakes are made by judges/refs, yet these mistakes cannot be undone the ref has to stick by his decision even if he see's it to be wrong afterwards. If he wavers then players will capitalise on this and contest every single call made afterwards.

For example if a football ref books a player and yellow cards him, he cant take it back. If he was able to reverse the decision and did, any other players that got yellowed that game will try it on, knowing that its possible to get it turned.

I know its harsh to say so but i think referees should stick to their guns on decisions, just make extra sure they dont make a similar mistake again.


We are all in the same boat, bad calls go both ways

 

[camsmith]

Originally posted by skullicious
Last tourney we maxed a team and one of our players that grabbed the flag was contesting a dodgy call as he had some spray on his right hand side, paint was different colour to what the other team was shooting and there was noone to shoot him from that angle anyway.
After the ensuing argument we ended up losing 4 players and -25 penalty points by the end of it.

I had a similar problem in the morning of the latest D7s. I had the flag, returned it and the marshall pulled me for a blob (not spray) on my knee. I happen to know that I was not shot there and I don't believe it looked like I had been shot. I reckon I must have kneeled on a ball.

My response was to hand the flag back to the marshall, allowing my team to get on with the game. I questioned my team captain once the game had finished, in case he wanted to protest, however he wasn't interested in pursuing it any further.

Personally, I believe this was a bad call. Did it make a difference? Well, one point down for us and an extra 3 or 4 for the other team. Perhaps I was shot earlier... if I was, and I stayed on the field then it could be argued that I benefitted from the lack of an earlier call, rather than a bad late call. Who's to say?

 

[Bolter]

The referees are not always right and sometimes the referees are downright cheating and biased toward the other team, but arguing with a ref never changes a decision. So what do you do? Complain to the Ultimate? That never gets anything sorted.

I have played low ranked domestic tournies where the refs are chatting on the sidelines happily watching the game rather than getting stuck in marshalling the players. What do you do? Tell them how to do their job?

 

[Azz3h]

Then again, with all sporting events, the referees should have someone who can see and confirm / disagree with their decision *cough* England's euro 2004 match*cough*
But it's not gonna happen
As with all sports the ref is right, anyone who saw any wimbledon saw the umpire calling in when the TV replays showed it out. Thats just tough.