air efficiency

[hkg_striker_force]

which is more efficient? spool or poppit?

 

[NitroBall]

Quoted from " RI0T " PBnation.

There are so many misinformed and generalized posts on this subject, that if anyone wants a REAL answer, they need to examine it more closely.

A poppet valve marker uses a valve that is typically held shut by a combination of air in the chamber and a spring. This valve is opened by either the addition of a force (such as a hammer striking the valve open) or air pressure being vented to allow the poppet to open (such as with the MQ valve).

A spool valve marker operates in such a fashion that the bolt system acts as the valve. Typically the bolt unseals the air chamber just prior to the bolt reaching its forward most position.

The performance differences of these markers are NOT definite.
An Ego, Intimidator, Cyborg or other stacked-tube open bolt poppet valve marker is typically much more efficient than the average spool valve marker, require less maintenance, but are louder. They are also taller but skinnier than the typical spool valve marker.

A shocker, Ion, DM, etc. typically is smoother than the average poppet valve marker, but are less efficient and require more frequent maintenance.

These generalizations do not always hold true, and the downfalls of each can be overcome with proper design.

The Droid is a spool valve marker that shuts the flow of air off to the bolt during the firing cycle to prevent waste of air, thus making it very efficient.

The Marq is an inline poppet valve marker that without the Proficiency Engine is less efficient than many spool valve markers, but fires at least as smooth, and doesn't require the additional maintenance. With the Proficiency Engine, they are as efficient or more efficient than most poppet valve markers.

The Droid and Marq are, IMO, great examples of well thought engineering that combat the downfalls inherent to the average marker of their valve type.

It wouldn't be difficult for more poppet valve manufacturers to make their markers shoot quietly and smoothly, nor would it be difficult for more manufacturers of spool valve markers to drasticly increase the efficieny such markers typically lack.


Edit: To see more technical differences between the various markers, study the animations HERE.

 

[John C]

There are so many misinformed and generalized posts on this subject, that if anyone wants a REAL answer, they need to examine it more closely.

A poppet valve marker uses a valve that is typically held shut by a combination of air in the chamber and a spring. This valve is opened by either the addition of a force (such as a hammer striking the valve open) or air pressure being vented to allow the poppet to open (such as with the MQ valve).

A spool valve marker operates in such a fashion that the bolt system acts as the valve. Typically the bolt unseals the air chamber just prior to the bolt reaching its forward most position.

The performance differences of these markers are NOT definite.
An Ego, Intimidator, Cyborg or other stacked-tube open bolt poppet valve marker is typically much more efficient than the average spool valve marker, require less maintenance, but are louder. They are also taller but skinnier than the typical spool valve marker.

A shocker, Ion, DM, etc. typically is smoother than the average poppet valve marker, but are less efficient and require more frequent maintenance.

These generalizations do not always hold true, and the downfalls of each can be overcome with proper design.

The Droid is a spool valve marker that shuts the flow of air off to the bolt during the firing cycle to prevent waste of air, thus making it very efficient.

The Marq is an inline poppet valve marker that without the Proficiency Engine is less efficient than many spool valve markers, but fires at least as smooth, and doesn't require the additional maintenance. With the Proficiency Engine, they are as efficient or more efficient than most poppet valve markers.

The Droid and Marq are, IMO, great examples of well thought engineering that combat the downfalls inherent to the average marker of their valve type.

It wouldn't be difficult for more poppet valve manufacturers to make their markers shoot quietly and smoothly, nor would it be difficult for more manufacturers of spool valve markers to drasticly increase the efficieny such markers typically lack.


Edit: To see more technical differences between the various markers, study the animations HERE.

Its true that a spool valve isnt always less efficient than a poppet.
But the reason is not whats quoted above.

The reason the droid is a very efficient spool valve is exactly the same reason a cyborg is a very efficient poppet valve.
Because they are both made very well to tight tolerances by Mac Dev.
If you take one apart, feel how the parts sit and move together. Everything fits tightly without binding. Hence a more efficient gun.


The reason a marq is a very inefficient poppet is because they are made to quite poor tolerances and the design leaves a bit to be desired.
Proof of this is the fact that they had to produce an 'upgrade' bolt kit to get the same efficiency as most other poppets get as standard.

Take a bob long gun apart and everything fits loosely.
You can bet that if they made a spooler like that, youd get 100 shots per tank.



Think of the type of gun as the starting point to which you apply your design and manufacturing abilities.

A poppet will always have better efficiency than a spool, if both are made to the same standard.

Its what you do with the design after that which matters. Hence why Macdev can produce an efficient spooler yet Bob Long cant produce an efficient bang valve.

 

[NitroBall]

Its true that a spool valve isnt always less efficient than a poppet.
But the reason is not whats quoted above.

The reason the droid is a very efficient spool valve is exactly the same reason a cyborg is a very efficient poppet valve.
Because they are both made very well to tight tolerances by Mac Dev.
If you take one apart, feel how the parts sit and move together. Everything fits tightly without binding. Hence a more efficient gun.


The reason a marq is a very inefficient poppet is because they are made to quite poor tolerances and the design leaves a bit to be desired.
Proof of this is the fact that they had to produce an 'upgrade' bolt kit to get the same efficiency as most other poppets get as standard.

Take a bob long gun apart and everything fits loosely.
You can bet that if they made a spooler like that, youd get 100 shots per tank.



Think of the type of gun as the starting point to which you apply your design and manufacturing abilities.

A poppet will always have better efficiency than a spool, if both are made to the same standard.

Its what you do with the design after that which matters. Hence why Macdev can produce an efficient spooler yet Bob Long cant produce an efficient bang valve.

Fully agree as to the explanation you have given. But that would only apply if all manufacturers made all there markers to the same tolerances.

I still think it was appropriet to quote the above information base on reality of how markers come rolling off the factory floor. In turn this would give a more accurate information for anyone deciding on a marker, or in need of more knowledge in different types of designs and how they work.

I beleive the following quote was inline with what you said, but not fully explained.

It wouldn't be difficult for more poppet valve manufacturers to make their markers shoot quietly and smoothly, nor would it be difficult for more manufacturers of spool valve markers to drasticly increase the efficieny such markers typically lack.