A little story about sanbagging for Magued...

[TOPOR]

Hej Magued,

I want to tell a little story and may be there will be some idea to keep.

A mixed team of rather good french players gathered to play miami under the name French connection. As we are all told that the US level of play is higher than ours, they decided to register in Novice division. Due to a few Pro Millenium ID cards they were forbidden to play Nov and they registered in Am. Congrats to these frenchie who passed the prelims!...

In this year Joy Masters, the team who won Am B division is a team called Epic Saint who play the Nordic series at a Pro status.
We didn't know that untill the swedish player of our team told us.
Geez, they play Pro in the nordic and they were allowed to register in Am B in the swedish millenium leg!
I mean, if it was Toulouse, I would not have accused Laurent Hamet not to have investigate on every team CV... but here all swedes knew Epic Saint was sandbagging big time...

Now, I don't why this happen, may be there are some reasons, like 3 or 4 beginners with them or somethin similar...

My advice: if in USA they have been able to ask the frenchies to step up, I'm sure this is possible here... in old europe.

PS: this is not a moaning thread, otherwise I would have post after Joy! It is a thread for 2004. Thanks for your understanding.

 

[Wadidiz]

Topor,

There is an essential fact that makes a difference here: Millennium Series and NPPL are "sister" leagues and are both considered to be major leagues. They have mutual agreements to share each other's ranking system.

The team that I played with was faced with a similar situation in Miami. We were ranked as Amateur B in Millennium which would be the equivalent of Novice in NPPL, although Novice in NPPL is probably a little closer to Amateur A in Millennium as far as playing level is concerned. But we had a player with us who had a pro ranking in Millennium and therefore we had to play Amateur.

The Nordic Series does not have a ranking agreement with Millennium. A pro ranking in the Nordic Series is not considered by anyone to be the same as a pro ranking in the major leagues. There are other teams in the Nordic Series who play Millennium at a lower level than Nordic.

I think the fact that Epic Saints ended up Season 2003 with an overall ranking of number 35 sort of proves the point that they weren't sandbagging.

IF they had placed in the top 4 for the season then I think you could rightfully say they were sandbagging, if they stayed at the same level next season! They did however take 2nd place at Joy and that alone, I personally believe, should make them step up NEXT season to the next level, although I'm not sure the rules say so.

I think it is totally open and fair for a team to play whatever level they are allowed to according to the rules. Besides it would be impossible for Millennium or any other major league to administer checking and properly interpreting all the smaller leagues or tournaments that are out there.

Steve

 

[Wadidiz]

Ehm - Steve ?

Originally posted by Nick Brockdorff
They only played 2 events !

Anyway - fixed divisions and forced promotion/relegation will take care of all that !

Nick

Ja, Ja, but Epic Saints got 31st place at their second event. Not like they ran away with their division.

Anyway I totally agree with you about the promotion/relegation thing.

I can't understand why there aren't already rules for that anyway. The old NPPL had a rule that said if a team placed within the top four at any event, they had to move up to the next division next season. I remember because a team I was on was subject to that rule.

But Millennium can't start looking into how a team's ranked outside of the major leagues IMO.

Steve

 

[TOPOR]

Re: Ehm - Steve ?

Originally posted by Wadidiz
The old NPPL had a rule that said if a team placed within the top four at any event, they had to move up to the next division next season.

Well, this is not a good rule if some supplementary additional material isn't add to it.

When I posted the thread, I mentioned somethin' like " unless their roaster is not fully made of the original team...".

If I take for example my team. We loose player every year, like half of the team! When we managed to rank third in Joy (our best ranking ever!) we had a good roaster that we won't have anymore. One player was a good guest, another one left the team for Shock Pro... Now we even wonder what we gonna do for 2004 !
If we were obliged to step up to Am A because of the team name, the team would split up !!!! Or we would change name and loose all the benefit of our effort to reward our sponsors...

 

[Wadidiz]

Exactly, Topor,

You simply change the team name if the team changes members substantially.

But the ranking/registration system of the NPPL and Millennium help make sure that the teams have a "fair" number of pros, ams or whatever in relation to their divisional ranking.

Steve

 

[jahlad]

Originally posted by Wadidiz
Exactly, Topor,

You simply change the team name if the team changes members substantially.

But the ranking/registration system of the NPPL and Millennium help make sure that the teams have a "fair" number of pros, ams or whatever in relation to their divisional ranking.

Steve

but wouldnt that be a little like asking manchester united to change their name because beckham left?

 

[Challenger]

Changing a Team name isnt simple.
We have Tops,bottle covers,t-shirts,barrel condoms,websites etc.
All would have to be replaced or redesigned,so it isnt simple to do,not to mention the cost involved.
Not to mention the reputation that a Team builds up over the years.
I dont see the the idea of changing names as pactical whatsoever.

 

[Wadidiz]

Then a team has to either recruit some "heavy hitters" like Manchester would have to do or just suck it up and play anyway. Either that or just choose not play without the top talent.

Can any of you think of any reasonable solution?

Steve

 

[Gyroscope]

The problem is ultimately with players playing in divisions that are lower than where they belong. Do not force teams to bump up, force players to do so.

If you want to be very careful about it, award seeding points to players who are on teams that place or participate. Add 5 points to a player who comes in 4th, 7 in 3rd, etc. Add 1 point for participating in an event. Cap the total points a team can roster. That way, a team can have a player who is technically capable of play at a higher level, but he is balanced by less experienced players.

This reflects reality, somewhat. A team with one pro and 6 rookies will have their work cut out for them in even the rookie division, I would think. If that is still objectionable, make it impossible for players with experience to play at the lowest tiers of the series.

 

[TOPOR]

Gyroscope, I like your idea of a capital of points per team based on the points awarded to the players...

Hey! this would even justify what we pay for our ID Millenium cards!

If an ex Pro player decide to quit Pro level and become captain of 6 novice players, well, it is up to him... for example!