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Ion vs Epithany(?)

spangley_special

Free Agent
Sep 26, 2006
2,810
134
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Bristol
www.iamjackfranklin.co.uk
not keen on the ephinany high pressure shizzle, makes it harder on paint and increases kick.

...my ion runs at about 120psi with 13ms dwell (plus 2ms fsdo) just as, if not more efiecnt than any ephinany, a fair wack lighter too:cool:

however the extra ups (trigger, barrel and grips) make it pretty decent value, i['d still take the ion any day
 
not keen on the ephinany high pressure shizzle, makes it harder on paint and increases kick.

...my ion runs at about 120psi with 13ms dwell (plus 2ms fsdo) just as, if not more efiecnt than any ephinany, a fair wack lighter too:cool:

however the extra ups (trigger, barrel and grips) make it pretty decent value, i['d still take the ion any day

Are you running a QEV?
If so, I can guarantee that your gun is far harder on paint and has more kick than an epiphany running at 200+ PSI

But because its running such a low pressure it wont be as accurate during rapid fire.
 

spangley_special

Free Agent
Sep 26, 2006
2,810
134
98
Bristol
www.iamjackfranklin.co.uk
Are you running a QEV?
If so, I can guarantee that your gun is far harder on paint and has more kick than an epiphany running at 200+ PSI

But because its running such a low pressure it wont be as accurate during rapid fire.
you may think that it would have more kick because the bolt is accelerating and decelerating faster, but there is far less pressure behind the bolt and the bolt itself only weighs 7.4 grams less than half the weight of a firebolt.

...as for being hard on paint, there is less force in my bolt cycling with a qev than a firebolt cyling without one (it does have less than half the mass and half the pressure behind it)

as for accuracy, its shooting 15bps consistantly with NO shoot down, matching paint to bore with my whipers barrel and freak inserts, so its as accurate as anything else out there.
 

ION_CRAZY

Upgrade your Game
Jul 11, 2005
958
1
0
UK
www.paintball-upgrades.co.uk
Are you running a QEV?
If so, I can guarantee that your gun is far harder on paint and has more kick than an epiphany running at 200+ PSI

But because its running such a low pressure it wont be as accurate during rapid fire.
I believe he has a deadlywind hollowpoint bolt, correct me if im wrong, but that is essentially one big port, the weight also reduces the kick a lot, i wouldnt run an ION that low a pressure, but i also use deadlywind bolt and my settings are at 135 PSI with no QEV at 22ms, mine has almost no kick, mine shoots all kinds of paint and i almost never chop.
 

spangley_special

Free Agent
Sep 26, 2006
2,810
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www.iamjackfranklin.co.uk
ok so to clear things up

i have (that affect this aspect of performance)

deadlywinds hollowpoint bolt
deadlywinds whisper barrel with alloy inserts
virtue clipard style qev
stock can
powerlyte 07 dounut
t-board

i recon i could run the dwell lower than i do (thus improving effientecy) how ever i would have to increase the pressure thus making it harder on paint and as it can allready shoot far more paint than i carry i'd rather not bother
 
you may think that it would have more kick because the bolt is accelerating and decelerating faster, but there is far less pressure behind the bolt and the bolt itself only weighs 7.4 grams less than half the weight of a firebolt.
It would, in comparison to not having a QEV and the same setup.
Of course having a lightweight bolt does far more to reduce kick than anything else.
And once your cycling mass becomes stupidly light, the bolt speed hardly has an effect.
But you were keeping your upgrade bolt a secret ;) So I couldnt know that :D

...as for being hard on paint, there is less force in my bolt cycling with a qev than a firebolt cyling without one (it does have less than half the mass and half the pressure behind it)
Remember the pressure acts on both sides of the bolt, so a higher pressure behind the bolt also means more air to be evacuated from in front of the bolt sail through the same sized apeture (the noid/QEV) when you fire.

Increasing the pressure by 50% may yield a 50% increase in bolt force.
But adding a QEV will add hundreds of percent to the bolt force by allowing the air in front of the bolt to evacuate with much less back pressure.

You can compare bolt force by measuring cycle rate.


Mass actually acts the other way.
If you have a particularly heavy bolt it will have less acceleration, reducing its ability to break paint when chambering.

Having a heavy bolt isnt like hitting the ball with a heavy thing versus a light thing. The bolt doesnt get a run up to the ball, and the ball is allowed to move forwards as we push it.
What we really want is to start the ball off with a slow/light bolt force and end up with a hard/fast bolt force.

But again its such a small effect.



In addition to this there is the amount of surface area contact between bolt and ball.
Pressure is force over area, so it follows that if you reduce the area in contact with the ball, for the same bolt force the ball will 'feel' more pressure when loading.
This is an area where the firebolt lets itself down big time. The front of it is like a bloody razorblade.

This is a much larger effect.

Common paintball 'thinking' would say that you need a larger bolt apeture to allow the air through 'easier'.
But thats nonesense. Having a larger bolt apeture just gives the air somewhere to expand before it gets to the ball. Wasting energy.
Look at the ego bolt, it has a fairly small apeture, to give a large contact area between the bolt and the ball, making the ego rather gentle on paint for a bang valve gun.



as for accuracy, its shooting 15bps consistantly with NO shoot down, matching paint to bore with my whipers barrel and freak inserts, so its as accurate as anything else out there.
I was more commenting about the stock setup as I havent seen a hollowpoint up close.
(The hollowpoint looks like a very clever design. Which, correct me if Im wrong, but until the bolt pops off the stalk, the front and rear acting surfaces are very similar areas, further reducing the effect operating pressure has on bolt force)


My original point is, when comparing like for like, no matter what your requirements, adding a QEV degrades the overall performance of the gun, where as increasing the pressure improves the overall performance of the gun.



Sorry I did ramble on a bit....